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Elliot Temple on May 10, 2019

Comments (65)

Big Deplatforming Day


Anonymous at 10:14 PM on May 10, 2019 | #12325 | reply | quote

#12320 I agree with Elliot. What's your point?


Anonymous at 4:54 AM on May 11, 2019 | #12327 | reply | quote

#12327 I am Elliot. My point was reposting content so it's in a better place.

If someone posts a tweet, link or quote without any comment, I'd generally assume they think it's good.


curi at 10:38 AM on May 11, 2019 | #12329 | reply | quote

Sunny and Doug on political coults

https://youtu.be/XpJBwOSwzcI

You can skip the first 15~20 minutes


Anonymous at 7:56 AM on May 12, 2019 | #12345 | reply | quote

Anonymous at 9:14 AM on May 12, 2019 | #12346 | reply | quote

https://twitter.com/curi42/status/1128057954245079040

Context is she's mad I said (to someone else):

https://twitter.com/curi42/status/1127453335819247616

> Anti-zionism is mostly motivated by anti-semitism. It's full of double standards and lies. See e.g. http://fallibleliving.com/essays/rational-politics/89-a-short-history-of-israel and the writing of @CarolineGlick


curi at 3:04 PM on May 13, 2019 | #12366 | reply | quote

I tweeted:

If gender doesn’t matter, why does it matter which gender you identify as? Trans-activists are sexists who judge people by their gender, contrary to the prior activism that downplayed gender. Also note the parallels to race issues.


curi at 10:51 PM on May 13, 2019 | #12373 | reply | quote

What Is to Be Done?

Re:deplatforming

We need a true decentralized social network.

It is technically possible?


Anonymous at 4:26 AM on May 15, 2019 | #12390 | reply | quote

#12390 It's technically possible if you assume people have free internet access. That doesn't make it realistic to get a lot of people using it, or make it convenient and user friendly, etc.

Also to get started people will need to do something like download the app from a website (which is not decentralized and relies on some webhost and domain registrar, and maybe cloudflare or some other service to deal with DDOSes. Or they could put it on github or some other site, but then that site could remove it).

And who makes the app and decides how it works? Some small, central group. Yes it could be open source and possible to fork, but that doesn't solve the problems well.

Gab made a centralized (their own database server) tool to enable commenting on any webpage. So even if the page doesn't have comments, or censors the comments, you can comment with Gab's tool and then other users of Gab's tool can see your comment and reply (if they go to the same webpage, or if they look at a list of recent comments or do a search for comments). I already thought that was not user friendly and would have a hard time catching on, but then Mozilla and Google won't let Gab distribute the browser extension, so now Gab wants to fork their own browser, which I think is an awful idea and far more user unfriendly.

I think, currently, political improvement may be a more viable way to improve the situation than a technological solution.


curi at 1:08 PM on May 15, 2019 | #12395 | reply | quote

A moderator of the True Objectivism subreddit defended deplatforming! I replied:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/bnvnbm/facebook_and_twitter_cant_censor_speech/ennuzzl/

> The government has supported and subsidized these companies, and has used the power of law to harm and prevent competition. It's not anything close to a free market.

> And the companies have claimed to be free speech platforms, so if they aren't that is/was fraud (false advertising). And the are brazenly and actively lying about what their moderation policies are. They wouldn't have gotten as popular as they are without that fraud.


curi at 1:18 PM on May 15, 2019 | #12396 | reply | quote

#12366 Anti-Globalism is the greatest anti-Semitism.


Anonymous at 1:44 AM on May 16, 2019 | #12401 | reply | quote

Anonymous at 11:38 AM on May 17, 2019 | #12417 | reply | quote

https://voat.co/v/politics/3230478

Poles have published the Red Cross report on the Nazi concentration camps that claims 271,301 people were killed, not 6 million.


Anonymous at 2:44 PM on May 21, 2019 | #12467 | reply | quote

Borderless Is Merely OK

i think Borderless is worse than Farmlands. she’s trying hard to be professional and entertaining in ways i don’t like, instead of just giving info. her talking seems more scripted for drama. too much of a staged feel to some scenes. i also don’t like the fake neutrality/objectivity.

i had an impression that Borderless had more makeup on Lauren and that kinda thing. so i just skimmed Farmlands by clicking at random places. first 5 clicks and lauren isn't even on screen. even when she's on screen, she's often at a distance, wearing a hat, and doing some activity *other than* talking straight into the camera. Borderless made way more effort to fit in close shots of Lauren and her face. that's another way it's catering more to the masses.

i’m not the target audience. it’s not meant to be for niche hardcore fans/supporters. it's meant for people with more moderate politics than me, and who are much less informed about the issues. it repeatedly took things i already knew, or at least would have expected if asked, and presented them as very surprising. and Lauren kept telling her audience what to be surprised by, or what is important, like they can't think for themselves and need to be guided. it's a little like having laugh cues for an audience too dumb to know which parts to laugh at.

at first i was thinking: even toned down, it's still too much for YouTube to put up with. they delayed processing of it then took it down. but then i thought: maybe YouTube finds it *more threatening* when it's milder, b/c it can better reach the masses.

btw, yes, i know, she was always an actress who tried to be entertaining in non-intellectual ways. and the vids with Pettibone talking about relationships were pretty awful (Pettibone is just a pretty face afaict, while Southern is actually a smart person when she wants to be). some favs that have intelligent content mixed in with the clickbait:

about normie youtube and the state of the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT2Y78TwCrw

debunking shitty "science":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLUMINLTNLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxgW4HfMos4

Also the writing in her book was fine.

---

same problem happens with other stuff like game of thrones fans. the hardcore fans were there first, and were the only reason a TV show happened, but they got screwed over when the TV show was not made for them.

the video game industry in general moved far away from what the best ppl, who were early adopters, want. to cater to bigger audience. the early adopters made it possible but then don’t get stuff made for them.


curi at 10:33 AM on May 25, 2019 | #12505 | reply | quote

https://mises.org/wire/tucker-carlson-and-aoc-are-wrong-about-christianity-and-usury

Tucker Carlson, who says Bernie and AOC are right re max interest caps (very similar to price controls), is not the hero who will save us.

solid article btw. has info about the history of usury. fits with what i read (in more detail, with more quotes and sources) in Rothbard's history of economic thought (which the article quotes).

it's a good point that before there was much commerce, a major type of loan was for desperate poor ppl who need it for food and shelter. in that case, Christianity advocates charity (or if you ask for your money back, at least don't ask for extra). but the christian idea of charity doesn't really have much to do with loans to businessmen.

today, most loans aren't to pay for a meal. even some payday loans are used on luxuries. and what about payday loans to let someone pay rent or eat? payday lenders are kind enough to offer and option to people that *no one* (not the payday lender nor any church nor friends nor relatives nor anyone else*) wanted to give charity to. that's helpful.


Anonymous at 2:53 PM on May 25, 2019 | #12507 | reply | quote

https://twitter.com/thejpc/status/1135560475339632640

ppl r on the other side of this issue are ignorant or willfully blind.


Anonymous at 9:47 PM on June 3, 2019 | #12628 | reply | quote

Long Milo Yiannopoulos article trashing people involved in making and editing Lauren Southern's documentaries. They committed crimes (like fraud and stealing lots of money) and betrayed the right. They previously fucked with Tommy Robinson at length. Milo suggests that Lauren probably knew what was going on and was somehow OK with it, and also that she has been sleeping with a bunch of right wing guys to get career and script help (and that she doesn't make much of her own material) while also lying about tradcon stuff publicly. Suggests Lauren recently retired to try to dodge the backlash. Also talks about Ezra Levant and others handling stuff badly.

Total mess. I would *not* recommend reading the whole article. It's a bit repetitive, kinda disorganized, and very long. But I'd recommend reading/skimming a bit to get the idea if you were interested in some of these ppl.

https://www.dangerous.com/50638/say-farewell-to-the-klepto-queens-of-the-british-far-right/


Anonymous at 10:54 AM on June 10, 2019 | #12715 | reply | quote


Anonymous at 5:00 PM on June 10, 2019 | #12721 | reply | quote

Anonymous at 5:03 PM on June 10, 2019 | #12722 | reply | quote

#12751 Boo hiss.


Anonymous at 12:46 PM on June 12, 2019 | #12752 | reply | quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9AM6N1Zi80

being pro-life motivated the pinterest whistleblower. it helped him do something good


Anonymous at 9:03 PM on June 12, 2019 | #12758 | reply | quote

I like the pinterest whistleblower. I like his attitudes and what he says[1]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuX87JFzLFc

I wonder if any of it is coached by Veritas (or by anyone else), or how much he prepped, or whether he got the interview questions in advance.

[1] I don't like his goal of banning abortion, but I understand it some. I dislike the prochoice activists more. People on both sides are awful at science and reason. If you have no clue about science or reason, it makes sense to err on the side of caution.

I know that isn't the reason he'd endorse. He'd claim to know that life really does begin at conception or some religious nonsense along those lines.

But meanwhile the pro-choice activists know nothing about science and are totally sure of themselves, just like they are with everything else. And they shouldn't be. They are irrational fools pretending to be smart. They're dangerous. They are confident about abortion and evolution (where they happen to be right) and also about Marxism, white privilege, affirmative action, minimum wage, socialized medicine, immigration, global warming, paternalistic government, and so on (where they're wrong).


curi at 12:25 PM on June 13, 2019 | #12765 | reply | quote

*The Coming Green Terror* blog post by George Reisman:

http://georgereismansblog.blogspot.com/2019/06/the-coming-green-terror.html


Anonymous at 10:39 PM on June 14, 2019 | #12776 | reply | quote

https://twitter.com/jeffdeist/status/1143177748707516416

> A 4 minute masterclass on how to argue for peace without apology.

By Jeff Deist, Mises Institute President, and RTed by the Mises Twitter account too.

Links to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d95lN9ACCs4

> Lew Rockwell on RT International 22 06 19

I thought the video was *awful*. He said don't put any sanctions on Iran, sanctions are basically a war act and we're starving people in Iran and elsewhere, which is evil of us. Just have peace talks, but don't use violence *or* sanctions. He assumes everyone will be reasonably if you negotiate? Really nasty stuff IMO, and kinda damns the Mises Institute (some of their work on econ is still good ofc and they do a good job of making ebooks available).

Anyone like the vid?


curi at 2:56 PM on June 24, 2019 | #12854 | reply | quote

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1143330626784960512

More deplatforming, just as the video itself reports on.

And they fucked with my newsletter. I just sent out the YT link to that video today and now the link won't work for my readers and the archives are screwed up. Ugh.


curi at 7:28 PM on June 24, 2019 | #12859 | reply | quote

https://vdare.com/posts/a-champion-emerges-sen-hawley-proposes-bill-to-tackle-tech-censorship

the article is about the publisher vs. platform distinction and section 230 law. maybe you've heard about that stuff. if not, check out the article.

that approach is evil. I think this was pointed out in a Mises Institute article or podcast, i forget but wanted to give some kinda credit. i recall them saying something kinda like:

*it should be possible to have a moderated forum (not neutral) without being sued for every single thing anyone posts there*. to make that impossible is huge fucking govt oppression

so i suggest what i’ve suggested before (which i have not see anyone else suggesting): go after Facebook for **fraud**. they keep lying about their products and false advertising to customers

we don’t need new laws and more govt power, we need to enforce the most basic laws that already exist and would exist even under minarchy. start there and see how effective classical liberalism actually is!


curi at 12:47 PM on June 25, 2019 | #12875 | reply | quote

#12875 Oh maybe I heard the publisher vs. platform criticism from Rucka. I definitely watched this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VDItPddFYA

Maybe I saw a Mises article previously, but maybe not, can't remember.

I don't think I was paying much attention to the idea before hearing Rucka flame it. I didn't care about it much cuz I liked my fraud point more anyway. And the 230 stuff is just short term political details which I try to avoid; it's awful though.


curi at 12:54 PM on June 25, 2019 | #12876 | reply | quote

more on #12875

Alan Forrester asked me:

> What fraud has Facebook committed?

they have a terms of service. their actual actions do not follow it.

they advertise what to expect on FB, what kinda platform it is. they say it’s basically open, and you won’t be banned, except for extreme cases like drug dealers using it to sell product

they advertised it as offering privacy and working privacy controls. recently their lawyers said basically that no one has any expectation of privacy on FB.

they said they had adequate and reasonable security safeguards so your data would not be stolen. that was a lie.

they said, in various forms, that they don’t sell your data to advertisers, then they did.

overall, they lied that they were a neutral town square. they aren’t. if they had admitted from the start that they were a leftist site which moderates conservatives, then they would have fewer users and more conservative alternatives would exist.

they are still lying today. they don't want anyone to know what their real policies are for censoring stuff and deplatforming people or groups. they are actively relying on tricking (defrauding) their users. they are doing the same kind of shit – and publicly lying about it – that Veritas just exposed Pinterest and Google for.


curi at 2:19 PM on June 25, 2019 | #12879 | reply | quote

BTW I think FB has also committed fraud against their advertisers. I remember reading about an issue, a while ago, where they were counting video views or view duration in an unreasonable way so they could mislead advertisers about how much exposure they got for their money.

Here's an article which mentions an issue:

https://www.vox.com/2015/6/30/11564006/facebook-changes-the-way-it-counts-video-views-for-advertisers

Basically says they were charging advertisers for a video view if a video *autoplayed* (probably muted) for 3 seconds before the user scrolled it off the screen.

They have lots of shady crap regarding how they count ad views and even today, years after they got in bad press over this, I failed to find any good info about how it works (from FB or a third party) after searching a bit. I didn't find like a basic guide to what you need to know to advertise on FB and know what you're actually buying.


curi at 2:32 PM on June 25, 2019 | #12880 | reply | quote

#12897 Apple also blocks some channels on Telegram


Anonymous at 8:36 PM on June 26, 2019 | #12906 | reply | quote

#12879 Here's a good example of the ongoing fraud these companies do:

https://twitter.com/YouTubeInsider/status/1143685228126281728

> We've had a lot of questions today...clarifying, we apply our policies fairly and without political bias. All creators are held to the same standard.

YouTube is lying to the public about their product. Factually, they do not apply their policies fairly and without political bias and whole all creators to the same standard.

I think YT's tweet is about their deplatforming of the Veritas video in which a Google insider exposes Google's bias (including YouTube, which is owned by Google). But they aren't honest enough to state what issue they are commenting on.

A lot of people know YouTube is lying. The ratio on that tweet is 24k replies to 860 RTs. When a tweet is positively received, it gets more RTs than comments. There are no downvotes, so comments are the only way to respond negatively.

I skimmed through a few replies and the main theme I saw was calling YouTube liars. Also there are comments about the bad comments-to-RTs ratio itself. (There's also the comments to likes ratio, which is also awful.) Lots of comments have meme pics and animated GIFs. Also people call YouTube a joke or wonder if it's a parody account. But implying YouTube is lying is the most common.


curi at 1:49 PM on June 27, 2019 | #12913 | reply | quote

The Mises Institute has some awful affiliations.


Anonymous at 5:25 PM on June 27, 2019 | #12918 | reply | quote

I've been reading Noble Vision, which is a novel with heavy Ayn Rand/Objectivist style themes in where the hero is a doctor dealing with a socialist medical bureaucracy in the US.

https://www.amazon.com/Noble-Vision-Gen-LaGreca/dp/0974457949

I came across this xoxo thread.

http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4292125&mc=78&forum_id=2

I think the purpose of the post was more to complain about the guy's personal situation with his wife, but it provides an interesting glimpse into what doctors have to deal with nowadays. Some excerpts:

>Date: June 28th, 2019 12:14 PM

>Author: Thunder Collins

>My wife had a meeting with her boss and the program head to discuss her contract. >She tells the top guy that her boss (an incompetent black woman) is running a disorganized and chaotic program that is so poorly run and breaking so many rules that it is putting her at an unacceptable risk to her medical license and she won’t sign a new contract. She also complains that the black woman is trying to change the terms of their agreement in terms of accounting for her work hours and the number of patients she has to see. The black woman repeatedly chimps out and acts like an angry black woman who is being told that her benefits were being cut off. In a pause in the conversation, the top guy says “It looks like this relationship is over and you have made up you are going to leave.” Today is her last day.

[...]

>Date: June 28th, 2019 12:23 PM

>Author: Thunder Collins

>[The boss] is real bad. The woman has no medical background and she has been trying to dictate what patients get diagnosed and prescribed and breaking a number of laws. Can’t fire her tho, for obvious reasons,


Anonymous at 7:04 AM on June 29, 2019 | #12927 | reply | quote

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/opinion/democrats-debate-2020.html

Dems are purely evil radical hard left communists, would destroy America and leave us socialized and starving. Even NYTimes' token conservatives like Bret Stephens are starting to see the extent of the radicalism:

>Eliminating private health insurance, an industry that employs more than 500,000 workers and insures 150 million? Elizabeth Warren, Bill de Blasio, Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris support it (though the California senator later recanted the position). Since Democrats are already committed to destroying the coal industry and seem inclined to turn Silicon Valley into a regulated utility, it’s worth asking: Just how much of the private economy are they even willing to keep?

>And then there are the costs that Democrats want to impose on the country. Warren, for instance, favors universal child care (estimated cost, $70 billion a year), Medicare-For-All ($2.8 trillion to $3.2 trillion annually), student-debt cancellation and universal free college ($125 billion annually), and a comprehensive climate action plan ($2 trillion, including $100 billion in aid to poor countries), along with a raft of smaller giveaways, like debt relief for Puerto Rico.

>As Everett Dirksen might have said: A trillion here, a trillion there, and pretty soon you’re talking real money. Someone will have to pay for all this, and it won’t just be the very rich making between seven and 10 figures a year. It will be you.


Anonymous at 7:10 AM on June 29, 2019 | #12928 | reply | quote

I didn't know the gun control situation in the US was so awful a few decades ago! Texas and Alaska were NO ISSUE states!?

https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1145777240514465793


Anonymous at 1:08 PM on July 2, 2019 | #12952 | reply | quote

Nonsense pretending to be profound?


Anonymous at 10:52 AM on July 3, 2019 | #12955 | reply | quote

https://mises.org/wire/american-policy-pushes-iran-toward-nuclear-weapons

> If the US really wants to decrease the chances of a nuclear-armed Iran, it will have to adopt a less hostile policy.

This Mises article is basically saying the US is *causing* Iran to develop nukes by its harsh behavior. But it doesn't advise Iran to stop its hostile policy towards the US. It doesn't tell Iran that its chants of *death to America* only incentivize the US to impose more sanctions and political pressure. The article seems unbalanced and asymmetrical in a really fucking disturbing way. Fucking libertarians.


Dagny at 11:12 AM on July 3, 2019 | #12956 | reply | quote

I commented on the new House of Sunny podcast ep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gYSxRf25-c

> I think the fraud angle is important. We don't need new regulations. We need to enforce the most basic existing laws that would exist even in a minarchy. No force including no fraud. FB, YT, etc, are constantly lying, today (not just fraud to grow big initially, but ongoing right now), in official marketing and even in government hearings. They lie about what their ToS means, what their moderation policies are, under what circumstances then ban accounts, how their appeals processes work, whether their algorithms have certain features (like biased human manual intervention), and whether they are offering a neutral platform. This is false advertising and breach of contract. Start there, start with the stuff ought to be uncontroversially wrong from a classical liberal or libertarian viewpoint. There's no need to try to make it illegal to have a moderated forum, in general, if you don't want to be liable for everything posted there. You should just have to advertise truthfully about what kind of forum it is (e.g. an Objectivist only forum should be allowed to exist without getting sued for what its users say, but should not be allowed to advertise as an open platform, that'd be fraud). It's just like the issue with illegal immigration where we already have plenty of laws, we just need to enforce them.


curi at 4:13 PM on July 4, 2019 | #12962 | reply | quote

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/07/07/uswnt-world-cup

Forget equal pay, forget equality, fuck equality, equality is stupid, it was never about equality. Merit pay when women are better, equal pay when men are better, because the point is to favor women as much as possible.

And define merit based not on winning or production but on artistic performance – in an industry where winning or production are the normal goals.

John Gruber is a sexist. And he is, sadly, representative of far too many leftists.


Anonymous at 12:10 PM on July 7, 2019 | #12973 | reply | quote

Anonymous at 3:34 PM on July 7, 2019 | #12974 | reply | quote

Anonymous at 2:03 PM on July 8, 2019 | #12982 | reply | quote

old quote on "Northern conservatism" from 1897

https://www.counter-currents.com/2012/11/robert-lewis-dabney-on-conservatism/

>It may be inferred again that the present movement for women’s rights will certainly prevail from the history of its only opponent: Northern conservatism. This is a party which never conserves anything. Its history has been that it demurs to each aggression of the progressive party, and aims to save its credit by a respectable amount of growling, but always acquiesces at last in the innovation. What was the resisted novelty of yesterday is today one of the accepted principles of conservatism; it is now conservative only in affecting to resist the next innovation, which will tomorrow be forced upon its timidity and will be succeeded by some third revolution; to be denounced and then adopted in its turn. American conservatism is merely the shadow that follows Radicalism as it moves forward towards perdition. It remains behind it, but never retards it, and always advances near its leader. . . . Its impotency is not hard, indeed, to explain. It is worthless because it is the conservatism of expediency only, and not of sturdy principle. It intends to risk nothing serious for the sake of the truth, and has no idea of being guilty of the folly of martyrdom. It always when about to enter a protest very blandly informs the wild beast whose path it essays to stop, that its “bark is worse than its bite,” and that it only means to save its manners by enacting its decent role of resistance: The only practical purpose which it now serves in American politics is to give enough exercise to Radicalism to keep it “in wind,” and to prevent its becoming pursy and lazy, from having nothing to whip. No doubt, after a few years, when women’s suffrage shall have become an accomplished fact, conservatism will tacitly admit it into its creed, and thenceforward plume itself upon its wise firmness in opposing with similar weapons the extreme of baby suffrage; and when that too shall have been won, it will be heard declaring that the integrity of the American Constitution requires at least the refusal of suffrage to asses. There it will assume, with great dignity, its final position.


Anonymous at 3:50 PM on July 12, 2019 | #13067 | reply | quote

>> No doubt, after a few years, when women’s suffrage shall have become an accomplished fact, conservatism will tacitly admit it into its creed, and thenceforward plume itself upon its wise firmness in opposing with similar weapons the extreme of baby suffrage; and when that too shall have been won, it will be heard declaring that the integrity of the American Constitution requires at least the refusal of suffrage to asses. There it will assume, with great dignity, its final position.

Conservatives say that human life begins at conception. A baby has a soul before its even born. What, then, is the *principled* excuse for not letting a baby, even a fetus, vote?


Anonymous at 3:59 PM on July 12, 2019 | #13068 | reply | quote

https://georgereismansblog.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-united-states-individual-rights-and.html

> The United States, Individual Rights, And Slavery

Nice mini article.


Anonymous at 4:55 PM on July 12, 2019 | #13071 | reply | quote

Former ICE Director Thomas Homan stood up to left-wing character attacks

https://twitter.com/calebjhull/status/1149822850834079747?s=21


Anonymous at 7:10 PM on July 12, 2019 | #13074 | reply | quote

https://www.rt.com/news/464051-finnish-study-no-evidence-warming/

> Finnish study finds ‘practically no’ evidence for man-made climate change

> The results of the study were soon corroborated by researchers in Japan.

> In a paper published late last month, entitled ‘No experimental evidence for the significant anthropogenic climate change’, a team of scientists at Turku University in Finland determined that current climate models fail to take into account the effects of cloud coverage on global temperatures, causing them to overestimate the impact of human-generated greenhouse gasses.


Anonymous at 11:21 PM on July 13, 2019 | #13091 | reply | quote

https://twitter.com/Modernicide__

His new YouTube channel current has 11k subs. It's a *gamer* channel, not politics.

Deplatforming is constantly happening to people, and many of them are pretty dependent on a single platform. They lose huge audiences overnight.


Anonymous at 12:36 PM on July 15, 2019 | #13099 | reply | quote

Some Google censorship info (by left-biased wikipedia):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google


Anonymous at 12:39 PM on July 15, 2019 | #13100 | reply | quote

Some info on censorship by Facebook. The page also has other criticisms of Facebook:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Facebook#Censorship


Anonymous at 12:40 PM on July 15, 2019 | #13101 | reply | quote

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2019-07-17.html

Good article. The left is so bad at picking people in jail to defend. They picked a *drug Kingpin* involved with 23+ murders. If you picked prisoners to say "This man should be released" at *random* you'd do a lot better.

> This is the left's famous two-step on criminal punishment:

> 1. Oppose the death penalty on the grounds that "life in prison without possibility of parole" is just as good;

>2. Wait a few years for all the witnesses to die or move away, and then demand the convict's release on the basis of absolutely no information about his crime.

The left likes to talk about nonviolent drug crimes while not giving any info about a person's actual crimes.


Anonymous at 12:44 PM on July 17, 2019 | #13116 | reply | quote

https://reason.com/1981/02/01/love-canal/

Summary: Lovel Canal was a fraud. The chemical company was by far the most responsible and moral actor in what happened. The school board only got the property by threatening to take it with eminent domain, and the chemical company *repeatedly* warned them and tried to stop them from getting people hurt. The school board excavated tons of dirt that the chemicals were buried in, didn't tell their architect about the chemicals, built sewers, and more. Also the city and army dumped waste in the canal and that may not have been handled responsibly, whereas the chemical company sealed their waste. The hurt citizens with a lawsuit didn't do the most basic research to see if the school board might be at fault, e.g. but not bothering to check public records that the reporter accessed.

The chemical company, while highly responsible in how it deals with chemicals, did not have good lawyers. A popular book lied about what happened and turned the public against the chemical company. The reporter talked to the lawyer who advised not to sue for libel. The lawyer's reasoning was not to give the book free publicity. But once it was popular, he was just preventing the company from defending itself to the public. The reporter argued with the lawyer briefly and the lawyer actually conceded that maybe he should reconsider. It's terrible how carelessly some important decisions get made – but (for the chemical company, though not the school board) it was just the ones about publicity and lawyers, not about chemicals.


Dagny at 12:50 PM on July 17, 2019 | #13117 | reply | quote

Cloudflare deplatformed 8chan. Will 4chan be next?

https://new.blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

Cloudflare's post calls the US First Amendment a "libertarian" policy (this is a hint that they disapprove of it) and distances themselves by emphasizing it doesn't apply to private business or to other countries – and they say they are more of a foreign company than US one.

Scary.

And what do they prefer to the "libertarian" US policy of protecting freedom?

> Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online,


Anonymous at 3:03 PM on August 5, 2019 | #13227 | reply | quote

https://mailchi.mp/ben-evans/benedicts-newsletter-no-299?e=6d10385a84

> London has vastly more security cameras than any other city in a democracy and is exploring face recognition.

The article link is paywalled but the headline says a lot. Scary.


Anonymous at 3:07 PM on August 5, 2019 | #13228 | reply | quote

Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell got suspended from Twitter for sharing a video showing people making violent threats against *him*

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/07/mitch-mcconnell-campaign-suspended-from-twitter-for-highlighting-violent-threats/


Anonymous at 4:57 PM on August 8, 2019 | #13251 | reply | quote

Owen Benjamin has been getting deplatformed. Here is some blatant fair use that YouTube copyright struck him for:

https://twitter.com/OwenComedy/status/1158710740477456384


Anonymous at 2:58 PM on August 10, 2019 | #13273 | reply | quote

Why gun control is unconstitutional in the USA

I would have liked to send to a website to read, but I didn't find information on a website at this time. If too long, I apologize. I will not do again.

--------------------------------------------------------

What our founding fathers said about guns (2nd Amendment)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I would like to see Gun Control Advocates in Washington, D.C. retire from politics and court. They haven't done anything good for this country as far as I am concerned. They need to check out what our founding fathers said and follow it! There is no exceptions in the 2nd amendment for assault weapons! So, as far as I am concerned, this AWB IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL ANYWAY! Even the words "assault weapons" is classic propaganda. Anything used to hurt someone else could be labeled an assault weapon - even your hand! The other thing that ticks me off is the misrepresentation of what our founding fathers said about 2nd amendment in order to sale gun control. TRY SOME OF THESE QUOTES ON FOR SIZE:

"... arms... discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them." -Thomas Paine.

"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p322.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the More General diffusion of Knowledge (1778).

"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..." -George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380.

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun. : -Patrick Henry.

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -Patrick Henry

"To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." -Richard Henry Lee writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788).

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

"...the people have a right to keep and bear arms." -Patrick Henry and George Mason, Elliot, Debates at 185.

"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well-regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." -James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves... and include all men capable of bearing arms." -Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169.

"The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age..." -Title 10, Section 311 of the U.S. Code. (see http: //www4 . law. cornel 1 . edu/uscode/)

"The people are nor to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." -Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliot, Debates at 646.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950).

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self=defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government,.."- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28).

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." -Tench Coxe, Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution, under the pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1989 at col. 1.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been recognized by the General Government; but the best security of that right after all is, the military spirit, that taste for martial exercises, which has always distinguished the free citizens of these States... Such men form the best barrier to the liberties of America." -gazette of the United States, October 14, 1789.

"They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts(only) as they are injurious)to others." -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia (1781-1785).

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." -George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426.

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." -Thomas Jefferson.

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison. "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria.

"Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense..." -John Adams, A defense of the Constitutions of the Government of the USA, 471 (1788).

“Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”-- Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386.

“False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put and end to personal liberty--so dear to men, so dear to the enlightened legislator--and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer? Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventative but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree.” Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book, 1774-1776,

quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment, 1764.

Statements from tapes that Martin Borman made of some of the pleasant dinner conversations he had been privy to:

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country.” Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426.

There are probably 35 or more cases in which a SCOTUS justice mentions the RKBA by quoting the Amendment, and in the vast majority of them they only quote the second, actionable clause. (If anybody wants, I can give you the case cites later) Still, I have never ignored the militia preamble. I believe that when we try to understand it we should accept this advice:

“On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning can be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one which was passed.” Thomas Jefferson, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322 (1957) [Letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823].

“My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for the powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ....[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or the state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People.” Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

“The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.” Noah Webster, "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution" (1787) in Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888).

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. . .” Samuel Adams, Debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (February 6, 1788).

“It has been asserted by the most respectable writers upon government, that a well-regulated militia, composed of the yeomanry of the country, have ever been considered as the bulwark of a free people. Tyrants have never placed any confidence on a militia composed of freemen.” John DeWitt, The Anti-Federalist Papers, p. 75 (M. Borden ed. 1965)

“Whenever, therefore, the profession of arms becomes a distinct order in the state. . .the end of the social compact is defeated. . . .No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for defense of the state. . . .Such a well regulated militia, composed of freeholders, citizens and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen” M. T. Cicero (a pseudonym), Charleston State Gazette, September 8, 1788

Last Monday, a string of amendments were presented to the lower house; these altogether respected personal liberty. . . William Grayson, 3 Patrick Henry, p. 391 (1951) [letter from Grayson to Henry, June 12, 1789]. [remember, it was Henry who complained of the Constitution without a RKBA in this fashion: “My great objection to this Government is, that it does not leave us the means of defending our rights; or, of waging war against tyrants”]

“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, and render regular troops in a great measure unnecessary. . . .the constitution ought to secure a genuine and guard against a select militia. . .and include. . .all men capable of bearing arms. . . . But, say gentlemen, the general militia are for the most part employed at home in their private concerns, cannot well be called out, or be depended upon; that we must have a select militia. . . .[of the select militia] These Corps, not much unlike regular troops, well ever produce an inattention to the general militia. . .whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. . . .The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.” Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer, p. 169-170 (1788)

The SCOUTS has weighed in on the definition of “the militia” in these cases: “The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of the Colonies and the States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense.

"A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline." And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of a kind in common use at the time” U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174, 179 (1939).

“It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States as well as the States, and, in view of this prerogative of the general government. . .the States cannot, even laying the constitutional provision in question out of view, prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms. . .[B]ut, as already stated, we think it clear that the sections under consideration [prohibiting mass marches by armed men without obtaining a permit] do not have this effect.” Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252, 267 (1886).

“Mr. Madison has introduced his long expected amendments. . . .It contains a bill of rights [including] . . . .the right to keep and bear arms.” Fisher Ames, 1 Works of Fisher Ames, pp. 52-53 (1854) [Letter to Thomas Dwight, June 11, 1789].

“The rights of conscience, of bearing arms, of changing the government, are declared to be inherent in the people.” Fisher Ames, 1 Works of Fisher Ames, pp. 53-54 (1854) [Letter to F. I. Minoe, June 12, 1789].

How was the RKBA sold to the public? Consider Madison’s good friend, Tench Coxe, who wrote a widely distributed pamphlet explaining the liberties in the Bill of Rights to aid Madison’s push for endorsement of them: “As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear private arms.” Tench Coxe, Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution. Published under the pseudonym, "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 Col. 1.

The militia clause is not a limitation, but a preamble which states the universally held principle that "standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty." (from the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia)

Therefore, here is how I (not me, the poster, but another's comment) read the Second Amendment: (I left it in because of the quotes.) 1. Whereas maintaining a standing army is dangerous to liberty, a well-regulated militia, composed of all citizens capable of bearing their private arms, is the best method to provide for the security of a FREE state (ie. A state in which the people need not fear the ambitions of their own government); AND 2. That every citizen has the right to keep and bear private arms; for this right provides the citizen with the ability to defend his life, his liberty, and his property from the "tyranny of irritated ministers" as well as providing him with the means to "discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe." (citing The Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking up Arms and Thomas Paine, respectively)

The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well-regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." -James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789). "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves... and include all men capable of bearing arms." -Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169.

Here are some statements from the Enemies of Liberty: "Governments begins at the end of the gun barrel." -Chairman Mao

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. ...Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms." - V.I.Lenin

"If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall do it ourselves." - Joseph Stalin

We are taking the law and bending it as far as we can to capture a whole new class of guns." - Jose Carada, (White House official who specializes in gun control policy), The Los Angeles Times

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans..." Bill Clinton (USA Today, 11 March 1993, page 2A)

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has FULL GUN REGISTRATION! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" by Hitler,1935 WHO WAS A SOCIALIST HIMSELF!

“Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”-- Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386.

“False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put and end to personal liberty--so dear to men, so dear to the enlightened legislator--and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer? Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventative but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree.” Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book, 1774-1776, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment, 1764.

Statements from tapes that Martin Borman made of some of the pleasant dinner conversations he had been privy to:

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country.” Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426.

There are probably 35 or more cases in which a SCOTUS justice mentions the RKBA by quoting the Amendment, and in the vast majority of them they only quote the second, actionable clause. (If anybody wants, I can give you the case cites later) Still, I have never ignored the militia preamble. I believe that when we try to understand it we should accept this advice:

“On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning can be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one which was passed.” Thomas Jefferson, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322 (1957) [Letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823].

“My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for the powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ....[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or the state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People.” Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

“The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.” Noah Webster, "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution" (1787) in Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888).

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. . .” Samuel Adams, Debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (February 6, 1788).

“It has been asserted by the most respectable writers upon government, that a well-regulated militia, composed of the yeomanry of the country, have ever been considered as the bulwark of a free people. Tyrants have never placed any confidence on a militia composed of freemen.” John DeWitt, The Anti-Federalist Papers, p. 75 (M. Borden ed. 1965)

“Whenever, therefore, the profession of arms becomes a distinct order in the state. . .the end of the social compact is defeated. . . .No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for defense of the state. . . .Such a well- regulated militia, composed of freeholders, citizens and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen” M. T. Cicero (a pseudonym), Charleston State Gazette, September 8, 1788

“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, and render regular troops in a great measure unnecessary. . . .the constitution ought to secure a genuine and guard against a select militia. . .and include. . .all men capable of bearing arms. . . . But, say gentlemen, the general militia are for the most part employed at home in their private concerns, cannot well be called out, or be depended upon; that we must have a select militia. . . .[of the select militia] These Corps, not much unlike regular troops, well ever produce an inattention to the general militia. . .whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. . . .The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.” Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer, p. 169-170 (1788)

The SCOUTS has weighed in on the definition of “the militia” in these cases: “The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of the Colonies and the States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. "A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline." And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of a kind in common use at the time” U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174, 179 (1939).

“It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States as well as the States, and, in view of this prerogative of the general government. . .the States cannot, even laying the constitutional provision in question out of view, prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms. . .[B]ut, as already stated, we think it clear that the sections under consideration [prohibiting mass marches by armed men without obtaining a permit] do not have this effect.” Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252, 267 (1886).

Regarding the Second Amendment, does the spirit of the debates indicates whether the RKBA was intended to be an individual or a collective state’s right? “Mr. Madison has introduced his long expected amendments. . . .It contains a bill of rights [including] . . . the right to keep and bear arms.” Fisher Ames, 1 Works of Fisher Ames, pp. 52-53 (1854) [Letter to Thomas Dwight, June 11, 1789].

“The rights of conscience, of bearing arms, of changing the government, are declared to be inherent in the people.” Fisher Ames, 1 Works of Fisher Ames, pp. 53-54 (1854) [Letter to F. I. Minoe, June 12, 1789].

Last Monday, a string of amendments were presented to the lower house; these altogether respected personal liberty. . . William Grayson, 3 Patrick Henry, p. 391 (1951) [letter from Grayson to Henry, June 12, 1789].[remember, it was Henry who complained of the Constitution without a RKBA in this fashion: “My great objection to this Government is, that it does not leave us the means of defending our rights; or, of waging war against tyrants”] How was the RKBA sold to the public? Consider Madison’s good friend, Tench Coxe, who wrote a widely distributed pamphlet explaining the liberties in the Bill of Rights to aid Madison’s push for endorsement of them: “As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear private arms.” Tench Coxe, Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution. Published under the pseudonym, "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2

Col. 1.

Therefore, here is how I (not me, the poster, but another's comment) read the Second Amendment: (I left it in because of the quotes.) 1. Whereas maintaining a standing army is dangerous to liberty, a well-regulated militia, composed of all citizens capable of bearing their private arms, is the best method to provide for the security of a FREE state (ie. A state in which the people need not fear the ambitions of their own government); AND 2. That every citizen has the right to keep and bear private arms; for this right provides the citizen with the ability to defend his life, his liberty, and his property from the "tyranny of irritated ministers" as well as providing him with the means to "discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe." (citing The Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking up Arms and Thomas Paine, respectively) The militia clause is not a limitation, but a preamble which states the universally held principle that "standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty." (from the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia)

What your founding fathers said about guns (2nd Amendment)

"... arms... discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law abiding) deprived the use of them." Thomas Paine.

"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the More General diffusion of Knowledge (1778).

"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..." George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380.

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184 B.

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.: Patrick Henry.

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry

"To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." Richard Henry Lee writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787 1788).

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86 87.

"...the people have a right to keep and bear arms." Patrick Henry and George Mason, Elliot, Debates at 185.

"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well-regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves... and include all men capable of bearing arms." Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169.

"The militia of the United States consists of all able bodied males at least 17 years of age..." Title 10, Section 311 of the U.S. Code. (see http: //www4.law.cornel 1.edu/uscode/)

"The people are nor to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliot, Debates at 646.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950).

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government,.." Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28) .

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." Tench Coxe, Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution, under the pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1989 at col. 1.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been recognized by the General Government; but the best security of that right after all is, the military spirit, that taste for martial exercises, which has always distinguished the free citizens of these States... Such men form the best barrier to the liberties of America." gazette of the United States, October 14, 1789.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe, the supreme power in America cannot be enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and Constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. Noah Webster, “An Experiment of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution” (Philadelphia 1787)

"They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts (only) as they are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia (1781 1785).

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425 426.

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." Thomas Jefferson.

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation... where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria.

"Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual

discretion... in private self-defense..." John Adams, A defense of the

Constitutions of the Government of the USA, 471 (1788).

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has FULL GUN REGISTRATION! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" by Hitler, 1935 WHO WAS A SOCIALIST HIMSELF!

"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the More General diffusion of Knowledge (1778).

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts (only) as they are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia (1781 1785).

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." Thomas Jefferson.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria.

"The Aim of an Argument ... should not be victory, but progress." Joseph Joubert (1754 1824)

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." Seneca the Younger

"It is often argued that religion is valuable because it makes men good, but even if this were true it would not be a proof that religion is true. That would be an extension of pragmatism beyond endurance. Santa Claus makes children good in precisely the same way, and yet no one would argue seriously that the fact proves his existence. The defense of religion is full of such logical imbecilities." H. L. Mencken

Dictionary definition of NAZI:

Have you looked up NAZI in a dictionary?

1. A member or the National Socialist Germany Workers' Party, which in 1933, UNDER Adolph Hitler, SEIZED political CONTROL of Germany. 2. A person who holds similar views elsewhere.

Have you looked up SOCIALISM in a dictionary?

1 A theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and CONTROL of industry, capital, land, etc., by the community as a whole. 2. Procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3. (In Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism.

“Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386.

“On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning can be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one which was passed.” Thomas Jefferson, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322 (1957) [Letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823].

“False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put an end to personal liberty so dear to men, so dear to the enlightened legislator and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer? Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventative but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree.” Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book, 1774 1776, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment, 1764.

Statements from tapes that Martin Borman made of some of the pleasant dinner conversations he had been privy to:

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country.” Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941 44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425 426.

There are probably 35 or more cases in which a SCOTUS justice mentions the RKBA by quoting the Amendment, and in the vast majority of them they only quote the second, actionable clause. (If anybody wants, I can give you the case cites later) Still, I have never ignored the militia preamble. I believe that when we try to understand it we should accept this advice:

“My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for the powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth right of an American ....[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or the state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People.” Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

“The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.” Noah Webster, "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution" (1787) in Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888) .

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. . .” Samuel Adams, Debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86 87 (February 6, 1788).

“It has been asserted by the most respectable writers upon government, that a well regulated militia, composed of the yeomanry of the country, have ever been considered as the bulwark of a free people. Tyrants have never placed any confidence on a militia composed of freemen.” John DeWitt, The Anti Federalist Papers, p. 75 (M. Borden ed. 1965)

“Whenever, therefore, the profession of arms becomes a distinct order in the state. . .the end of the social compact is defeated. . . .No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for defense of the state. . . .Such a well-regulated militia, composed of freeholders, citizens and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen” M. T. Cicero (a pseudonym), Charleston State Gazette, September 8, 1788

“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, and render regular troops in a great measure unnecessary. . . the constitution ought to secure a genuine and guard against a select militia. . .and include. . .all men capable of bearing arms. . . . But, say gentlemen, the general militia are for the most part employed at home in their private concerns, cannot well be called out, or be depended upon; that we must have a select militia. . . .[ of the select militia] These Corps, not much unlike regular troops, well ever produce an inattention to the general militia. . .whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. . . .The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.” Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer, p. 169 170 (1788)

Last Monday, a string of amendments were presented to the lower house; these altogether respected personal liberty. . . William Grayson, 3 Patrick Henry, p. 391 (1951) [letter from Grayson to Henry, June 12, 1789]. [remember, it was Henry who complained of the Constitution without a RKBA in this fashion: “My great objection to this Government is, that it does not leave us the means of defending our rights; or, of waging war against tyrants”]

The SCOUTS has weighed in on the definition of “the militia” in these cases:

“The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of the Colonies and the States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. "A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline." And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of a kind in common use at the time” U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174, 179 (1939).

“It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States as well as the States, and, in view of this prerogative of the general government. . .the States cannot, even laying the constitutional provision in question out of view, prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms. . .[B]ut, as already stated, we think it clear that the sections under consideration [prohibiting mass marches by armed men without obtaining a permit] do not have this effect.” Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252, 267 (1886).

Regarding the Second Amendment, does the spirit of the debates indicates whether the RKBA was intended to be an individual or a collective state’s right?

“Mr. Madison has introduced his long expected amendments. . . .It contains a bill of rights [including] . . . .the right to keep and bear arms.” Fisher Ames, 1 Works of Fisher Ames, pp. 52 53 (1854) [Letter to Thomas Dwight, June 11, 1789].

“The rights of conscience, of bearing arms, of changing the government, are declared to be inherent in the people.” Fisher Ames, 1 Works of Fisher Ames, pp. 53 54 (1854) [Letter to F. I. Minoe, June 12, 1789].

How was the RKBA sold to the public? Consider Madison’s good friend, Tench Coxe, who wrote a widely distributed pamphlet explaining the liberties in the Bill of Rights to aid Madison’s push for endorsement of them:

“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear private arms.” Tench Coxe, Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution. Published under the pseudonym, "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 Col. 1.

Therefore, here is how I (not me, the poster, but another's comment) read the Second Amendment: (I left it in because of the quotes.)

1. Whereas maintaining a standing army is dangerous to liberty, a well-regulated militia, composed of all citizens capable of bearing their private arms, is the best method to provide for the security of a FREE state (i.e. A state in which the people need not fear the ambitions of their own government); AND

2. That every citizen has the right to keep and bear private arms; for this right provides the citizen with the ability to defend his life, his liberty, and his property from the "tyranny of irritated ministers" as well as providing him with the means to "discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe." (citing The Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking up Arms and Thomas Paine, respectively)

The militia clause is not a limitation, but a preamble which states the universally held principle that "standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty." (from the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia)

Notable Quotes

1.

The following quotes are taken from several sources. They provide some

guidance for interpretation of the Constitution.

"It is every Americans' right and obligation to read and interpret the

Constitution for himself."

Thomas Jefferson

"On every question of construction, let us carry ourselves back to the

time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested

in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out

of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in

which it was passed."

Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The

Complete Jefferson, p. 322.

"Our peculiar security is in the possession of a written Constitution.

Let us not make it a blank paper by construction."

Thomas Jefferson to W, Nicholas, 1803.

"The true key for the construction of everything doubtful in a law, is

the intention of the law givers. This is most safely gathered from the

words, but may be sought also in extraneous circumstances, provided they

do not contradict the express words of the law."

Thomas Jefferson to A. Gallatin, 1808.

"I had rather ask an enlargement of power from the nation, where it is

found necessary, than to assume it by a construction which would make

our powers boundless."

Thomas Jefferson to W. Nicholas, 1803.

"The particular phraseology of the Constitution of the United States

confirms and strengthens the principle, supposed to be essential to all

written constitutions, that a law repugnant to the Constitution is void;

and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that

instrument."

John Marshall: Opinion as Chief Justice in Marbury vs. Madison, 1802

"[E]very act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the

commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act,

therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this,

would be to affirm, that the deputy is greater than his principal; that

the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people

are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of

powers, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what

they forbid."

Alexander Hamilton

"... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.

The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is

wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts

they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is

lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... And what

country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from

time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let

them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon

and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The

tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of

patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Richard Henry Lee, Senator, First Congress, Additional Letters

from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169.

"Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the

people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an

army upon their ruins."

Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate

over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, August 17,

1789.

"... the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and

bear their private arms."

Tench Coxe in "Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the

Federal Constitution." Under the pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian" in the

Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 col. 1.

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people

always possess arms..."

Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Member of the First U.S. Senate.

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize

Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of

conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are

peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..."

Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the

Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Peirce & Hale, eds.,

Boston, 1850. 2, col. 2.

"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless

minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds."

Samuel Adams

"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA

ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve

the state."

Heinrich Himmler.

"The battle, Sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the

active, the brave. Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base

enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest.

There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are

forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is

inevitable; and let it come! I repeat, Sir, let it come!"

Patrick Henry, in his famous "The War Inevitable" speech, March,

1775.

"It is in vain, Sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace,

Peace! But there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale

that sweeps from the North will bring to our ears the clash of

resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we

here idle? What is it that Gentlemen want? What would they have? Is life

so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains

and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may

take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

Patrick Henry, in his famous "The War Inevitable" speech, March,

1775.

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I

advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives

boldness, enterprise, and independence Games played with the ball, and

others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no

character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion

of your walk."

Encyclopedia of Thomas Jefferson, 318 (Foley, Ed., reissued 1967)

"That the Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to

infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or

to prevent "the people" of the United States who are peaceable citizens

from keeping their own arms..."

"Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never in nothing,

great or small, large or petty never give in except to convictions of

honor and good sense."

Winston Spencer Churchill, address at Harrow School, October 29, 1941.

"Never turn your back on a threatened danger and try to run away from

it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it

promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.

Never run away from anything. Never!"

Winston Churchill

"The rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine.

Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious."

Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless

one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly ... it must

confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda

"God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to

guard and defend it."

Daniel Webster

"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which

it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000

years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the

American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the

world."

Daniel Webster

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do

nothing."

Edmund Burke

"Those who have long enjoyed such privileges as we enjoy forget in time

that men have died to win them."

Franklin D. Roosevelt

"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I

say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Oliver Cromwell, "Lord Protector of the English Commonwealth",

upon dissolving Parliament

"Whenever people ... entrust the defense of their country to a regular,

standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will

remain under the direction of the most wealthy citizens..."

"A Framer", in the Independent Gazetteer, 1791

"We, the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts

not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert

the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln

"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army

pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and

gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional

privilege."

Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against

arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now

appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be

always possible."

Senator Hubert H. Humphrey (D-Minnesota)

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look

upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."

Mahatma Gandhi

"The one weapon every man, soldier, sailor, or airman should be able to

use effectively is the rifle. It is always his weapon of personal safety

in an emergency, and for many it is the primary weapon of offense and

defense. Expertness in its use cannot be overemphasized."

General Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Before God I swear this is my creed: my rifle and myself are the

defenders of our country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the

saviors of my life. So be it until victory is America's and there is no

enemy, but peace!!

From "My Rifle", by Major General W.H. Rupertus, USMC.

"The American Revolution was a beginning, not a consummation."

Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United 'States (1856-1924).

"With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but

with tyrants, I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they

will certainly be lost."

William Lloyd Garrison

"...to disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave

them..."

George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they

are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America

cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole of the people

are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular

troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States."

Noah Webster, "An Examination into the leading Principles of the

Federal Constitution." in Paul Ford, ed., Pamphlets on the

Constitution of the United States , at 56 (New York, 1888).

"... if raised, whether they could subdue a Nation of freemen, who know

how to prize liberty, and who have arms in their hands?"

Delegate Sedgewick, during the Massachusetts Convention,

rhetorically asking if an oppressive standing army could prevail

... Johnathon Elliot, ed., Debates in the Several State Conventions

on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, Vol. 2 at 97 (2d ed.,

1888).

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over

the people of almost every other nation ... notwithstanding the

military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are

carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are

afraid to trust the people with arms."

James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in Federalist Paper

No. 46, at 243-244.

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them,

may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be

occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to

the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the

article in their right to keep and bear private arms."

Tench Coxe, in "Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to

the Federal Constitution." under the pseudonym, "A Pennsylvanian"

in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 Col. 1.

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the

other hand, arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and the

plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.

The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of

arms, for all the world would be alike; but since some will not, others

dare not lay them aside...Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the

world deprived the use of them..."

Thomas Paine, I Writings of Thomas Paine at 56 (1894).

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation

that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the

difference between having our arms in possession and under our

direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our

defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they

be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own

hands?"

Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State

Conventions 45, 2d Ed. Philadelphia, 1836.

"The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone."

James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in Federalist Paper

No. 46.

"The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the

people at large or considered as individuals ... It establishes some

rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no

majority has the right to deprive them of."

Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7,

1789.

"All military type firearms are to be handed in immediately ... The SS,

SA and Stahlhelm give every responsible opportunity of campaigning with

them. Therefore anyone who does not belong to one of the above-named

organizations and who unjustifiably nevertheless keeps his weapon ...

must be regarded as an enemy of the national government."

SA Oberfuhrer of Bad Tolz, March, 1933.

"There are going to be situations where people are going to go without

assistance. That's just the facts of life."

LA Police Chief Darryl Gates

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States)

assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise

it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times

armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of

religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press."

Thomas Jefferson

"Enlighten people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and

mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day."

Thomas Jefferson

Apocryphal Quotes

The following are often quoted but dubious:

"This Year Will Go Down In History. For The First Time, A Civilized

Nation Has Full Gun Registration! Our Streets Will Be Safer, Our Police

More Efficient, And The World Will Follow Our Lead Into The Future!"

Adolph Hitler 1935 'Berlin Daily' (Loose English Translation)

April 15th, 1935 Page 3 Article 2 by Einleitung Von Eberhard

Beckmann "Abschied vom Hessenland!"

Refuted at http://www.guncite.com/gcbogus.html

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear

arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in

government."

Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950)

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil

interference they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."

George Washington

"Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. It is a force, like

fire: a dangerous servant and a terrible master".

George Washington

Refuted at http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html

Ancient Quotes

The following are from ancient philosophers who can inspire our times:

"We can have justice whenever those who have not been injured by injustice are as outraged by it as those who have been.".

â” Solon, author of the Constitution of Athens, 594 B.C.

"More law, less justice."

â” Cicero, De Officiis, 44 B.C.

"So far as the Civil Law is concerned, slaves are not considered persons, but this is not the case according to natural law, because natural law regards all men as equal."

"The precepts of the law are the following: to live honorably, to injure no one, to give to every one his due."

â” Ulpian, Roman jurist, ~222 CE

Quotable Quotes on Gun Control

- A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie. -- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

- All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars.--Charles Schumer

- I stand in support of this common sense legislation to license everyone who wishes to purchase a gun...I also believe that every new handgun sale or transfer should be registered in a national registry --Hillary Clinton

- If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. -- The Dalai Lama

- The Constitution of the United States of America clearly affirms the right of every American citizen to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution. -- Malcolm X

- If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves. — Stalin

- After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. -- William Burroughs

- On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. — Mussolini

- US Senator, If I could have banned them all -'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns'- I would have!-Diane Feinstein

- Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.—Ghandi

- I don't know about you, but if you hear that Williams' guns have been taken, you'll know Williams is dead. -- Walter Williams

- I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manufacturer's lobby.--Barrack Obama

- Gun control has not worked in D.C. The only people who have guns are criminals. We have the strictest gun laws in the nation and one of the highest murder rates.-- Lieutenant Lowell Duckett, Special Assistant to DC Police Chief; President, Black Police Caucus

- You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.--Japanese WWII Admiral Yamamoto

- All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.--Mao Tse Tung

- The first step is to take weapons off the streets and to put more police on them.--Hillary Clinton

- By calling attention to 'a well-regulated militia, ''the security of the nation,' and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms,' our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy...--JFK

Famous quote:

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."

— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

But that's not quite enough. Let's go for a few more:

"The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves,... all men capable of bearing arms;..."

— "Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic", 1788 (either Richard Henry Lee or Melancton Smith).

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."

— Tench Coxe, 1788.

If we are ready to violate the Constitution, will the people submit to our unauthorized acts? Sir, they ought not to submit; they would deserve the chains that our measures are forging for them, if they did not resist.

— Edward Livingston

How about this from a former SOVIET prisoner in a gulag:

"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every police operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? If during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever was at hand? The organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt."

— Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Nobel Prize winner and author of The Gulag Archipelago, who spent 11 years in Soviet concentration camps.

“...For, in principle, there is no difference between a law prohibiting the wearing of concealed arms, and a law forbidding the wearing such as are exposed; and if the former be unconstitutional, the latter must be so likewise. But it should not be forgotten, that it is not only a part of the right that is secured by the constitution; it is the right entire and complete, as it existed at the adoption of the constitution; and if any portion of that right be impaired, immaterial how small the part may be, and immaterial the order of time at which it be done, it is equally forbidden by the constitution....”--Bliss vs. Commonwealth,[12 Ky.(2 Litt.) 90, at 92, and 93, 13 Am. Dec. 251 (1822)]

"Whereas civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."-- Tench Coxe, Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789.

"The congress of the United States possesses no power to regulate, or interfere with the domestic concerns, or police of any state: it belongs not to them to establish any rules respecting the rights of property; nor will the constitution permit any prohibition of arms to the people; or of peaceable assemblies by them, for any purposes whatsoever, and in any number, whenever they may see occasion."

- ST. GEORGE TUCKER'S BLACKSTONE,(Mr. Tucker was AT the Constitutional Convention).

"In countries under arbitrary government, the people oppressed and dispirited neither possess arms nor know how to use them. Tyrants never feel secure until they have disarmed the people. They can rely upon nothing but standing armies of mercenary troops for the support of their power. But the people of this country have arms in their hands; they are not destitute of military knowledge; every citizen is required by law to be a soldier; we are marshaled into companies, regiments, and brigades for the defence of our country. This is a circumstance which increases the power and consequence of the people; and enables them to defend their rights and privileges against every invader."-- "the Republican", Jan. 7, 1788, Connecticut Courant (Hartford Newspaper).

"17th. That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, INCLUDING the body of the people capable of bearing arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that the militia shall not be subject to martial law, except in time of war, rebellion, or insurrection; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and ought not to be kept up, except in eases of necessity; and that at all times, the military should be under strict subordination to the civil power....18th. That any person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms ought to be exempted..."

- Page 160 - Journal of The Senate, Ratification of the constitution by the convention of the state of Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations.(Rhode-Island,Newport, June 9, 1790).

Famous quote:

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."

— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on

Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

But that's not quite enough. Let's go for a few more:

"The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves,... all men capable of bearing arms;..."

— "Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic", 1788 (either Richard Henry Lee or Melancton Smith).

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."

— Tench Coxe, 1788.

If we are ready to violate the Constitution, will the people submit to our unauthorized acts? Sir, they ought not to submit; they would deserve the chains that our measures are forging for them, if they did not resist.

— Edward Livingston

How about this from a former SOVIET prisoner in a gulag:

"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every police operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? If during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever was at hand? The organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt."

— Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Nobel Prize winner and author of The Gulag Archipelago, who spent 11 years in Soviet concentration camps.

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the WHOLE BODY of PEOPLE always POSSESS ARMS, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, Walter Bennett, ed., Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republican, at 21,22,124 [Univ. of Alabama Press,1975])

"The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order. I hope in God this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted."-- Thomas Jefferson, Nov. 13, 1787 letter to William S. Smith.

"The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by ANY rule of construction be conceived to give to Congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." - William Rawle, A View of the Constitution, 125-6 (2nd ed. 1829).(Appointed by President George Washington as U.S. District Attorney for Pennsylvania in 1791).

"Those rights, then, which God and nature have established, and are therefore called natural rights, such as are life and liberty, need not the aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by the municipal [or state] laws to be inviolable. On the contrary, no human legislation has power to abridge or destroy them...."- William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1765–1769.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and this without any qualification as to their condition or degree, as is the case in the British government...."

"....This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty....The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Whenever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."

"...In America we may reasonably hope that the people will never cease to regard the right of keeping and bearing arms as the surest pledge of their liberty..."

- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries,(1803).

"Also, the conditions and circumstances of the period require a finding that while the stated purpose of the right to arms was to secure a well-regulated militia, the right to self-defense was assumed by the Framers."-- Chief Justice John Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court.[As quoted in Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243, 251 (1846); State v. Dawson, 272 N.C. 535, 159 S.E.2d 1, 9 (1968).]

"From among the rights retained by our policy, we have selected those of self defence or bearing arms, of conscience, and of free inquiry, for two purposes; one, to shew the vast superiority of our policy, in being able to keep natural rights necessary for liberty and happiness, out of the hands of governments; the other, to shew that this ability is the effect of its principles, and beyond the reach of Mr. Adams’s system, or of any other, unable to reserve to the people, and to withhold from governments, a variety of rights."-- John Taylor, Revolutionary Soldier and U.S. Senator,(1792 – 94, 1803, 1822 – 24).[An Inquiry into the Principles and Policy of the Government of the United States: Section the Sixth; THE GOOD MORAL PRINCIPLES OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES,(1814).]

"The right of self-defence never ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals."-- President James Monroe, Nov. 16, 1818 message to the U.S. House and Senate.[Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, November 17th, 1818.]

"No, surely, No! they meant to drive us into what they termed rebellion, that they might be furnished with a pretext to disarm and then strip us of the rights and privileges of Englishmen and Citizens."--George Washington, March 1, 1778 letter to Bryan Fairfax, Valley forge.

“To take from the people the right of bearing arms, and put their weapons of defence in the hands of a standing army, would be scarcely more dangerous to their liberties, than to permit the Government to accumulate immense amounts of treasure beyond the supplies necessary to its legitimate wants. Such a treasure would doubtless be employed at some time, as it has been in other countries, when opportunity tempted ambition.”-- President Andrew Jackson, Message to U.S. House and Senate of Dec. 5, 1836.[Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, 1789-1873. TUESDAY, December 6, 1836.]

"That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as liberty], on which all the good and evil of life depends; is clearly my opinion; yet Arms...should be the last resort."-- George Washington, 1789 letter to George Mason.[The True George Washington, 10th Ed. By Paul Leicester Ford.]

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms..."-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist #28.

""The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is, that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right, originally belonging to our forefathers, trampled under foot by Charles I. and his two wicked sons and successors, reestablished by the revolution of 1688, conveyed to this land of liberty by the colonists, and finally incorporated conspicuously in our own Magna Charta! And Lexington, Concord, Camden, River Raisin, Sandusky, and the laurel-crowned field of New Orleans, plead eloquently for this interpretation!"--Chief Justice Collier, Nunn v. State, 1 Ga.(1 Kel.) 243 (1846).

Have you seen this information I found? What do you think of it?

U.S. Federal Gun Control Legislation, 1968 - present

All Federal gun control legislation in the United States has been written, introduced, and sponsored or co-sponsored by Jewish Congressmen and Jewish Senators.

Emanuel Celler, Democratic Representative from New York(1923 - 1973)

Howard Metzenbaum, Democratic Senator from Ohio(1974, 1976 - 1995)

Herb Kohl, Democratic Senator from Wisconsin(1989 - present)

Chuck Schumer, Democratic Senator from New York(1999 - present), Democratic Represenative from New York(1981-1999)

Dianne Feinstein, Democratic Senator from California(1992 - present)

Arlen Specter, Republican Senator from Pennsylvania(1981 - present)

Frank Lautenberg, Democratic Senator from New Jersey(1982 - 2001, 2003 - present)

Barbara Boxer, Democratic Senator from California(1993 - present), Democratic Representative from California(1983 - 1993)

Carl Levin, Democratic Senator from Michigan(1979 - present)

1968: The Gun Control Act of 1968 comes from Representative Emanuel Celler’s House bill H.R. 17735. It expands legislation already attempted by the non-Jewish Sen. Thomas Dodd. America’s biggest and most far-reaching gun law came from a Jew.

1988: Senate bill S. 1523 is sponsored by Senator Howard Metzenbaum. It proposes legislation turning every violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 into a RICO predicate offense, allowing a gun owner to be charged with federal racketeering offenses.

1988: Senator Metzenbaum co-sponsors a bill — S. 2180 — to ban, or limit/restrict, so-called “plastic guns.”

1990: Senator Herbert Kohl introduces bill S.2070, the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990, which bans gun possession in a school zone. The law will later be struck down in court as unconstitutional.

1993: Senate bill S.653 is sponsored by Senator Howard Metzenbaum. It bans specific semiautomatic rifles, but also gives the Secretary of the Treasury the power to add any semiautomatic firearm to the list at a later date.

February, 1994: The Brady Law, which requires waiting periods to buy handguns, becomes effective. Senator Metzenbaum wrote the Brady Bill. Metzenbaum sponsored the bill in the Senate. The sponsor of the bill in the House was Rep. Charles Schumer.

1994: Senator Metzenbaum introduces S.1878, the Gun Violence Prevention Act of 1994, aka “Brady II.” Representative Schumer sponsored “Brady II” sister legislation [H.R. 1321] in the U.S. House of Representatives.

September, 1994: The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 goes into effect, including a provision that bans the manufacture and possession of semiautomatic rifles described as “assault weapons.” [Note: true assault weapons are fully automatic, not semiautomatic]. That gun-ban provision was authored in the Senate by Senator Dianne Feinstein and authored in the House by Congressman Schumer.

1995: Senators Kohl, Specter, Feinstein, Lautenberg and others introduce the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1995, an amended version of the 1990 school-zone law which was struck down in court as being unconstitutional.

September, 1996: The Lautenberg Domestic Confiscation provision becomes law. It is part of a larger omnibus appropriations bill. It was sponsored by Senator Frank Lautenberg. It bans people convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence from ever owning a gun.

1997: Senate bill S. 54, the Federal Gang Violence Act of 1997, proposes much harsher sentences for people violating minor gun laws, including mandatory prison sentences and forfeiture of property. It was introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein and Senator Hatch, among others. It returns the idea of turning every violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 into a RICO predicate offense.

January, 1999: Senator Barbara Boxer introduces bill S.193, the American Handgun Standards Act of 1999.

January, 1999: Senator Kohl introduces bill S.149, the Child Safety Lock Act of 1999. It would require a child safety lock in connection with transfer of a handgun.

February,1999: Senator Frank Lautenberg introduces bill S.407, the Stop Gun Trafficking Act of 1999.

February, 1999: Senator Lautenberg introduces S.443, the Gun Show Accountability Act of 1999.

March, 1999: Senator Lautenberg introduces bill S.560, the Gun Industry Accountability Act of 1999.

March, 1999: Senator Feinstein introduces bill S.594, the Large Capacity Ammunition Magazine Import Ban Act of 1999.

May, 2000: Senate bill S. 2515, Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2000, is submitted by Senators Feinstein, Boxer, Lautenberg, and Schumer. It is a plan for a national firearms licensing system.

January, 2001: Senate bill S.25, Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2001, is sponsored by Senators Feinstein, Schumer, and Boxer. It is a nation-wide gun registration plan [apparently there were two versions of that Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act bill].

May, 2003: Senators Feinstein, Schumer, Boxer and others introduce legislation that would reauthorize the 1994 federal assault weapons ban, and, close a loophole in the law that allows large-capacity ammunition magazines to be imported into the U.S. The ban expired in September, 2004.

October, 2003: Senators Feinstein, Lautenberg, Levin, and Schumer co-sponsor bill S.1774, designed to stop the sunset [ending] of the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988.

March, 2005: Senator Lautenberg introduces bill S.645, “to reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act,” in other words, to reinstate the 1994 assault-rifle ban [also known as the “Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994”] which expired in late 2004.

March, 2005: Senator Feinstein introduces bill S.620, “to reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act,” in other words, to reinstate the 1994 assault-rifle ban [also known as the “Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994”] which expired in late 2004.

July, 2005: Senator Feinstein introduces bill SA1621 - Fifty-Caliber Sniper Weapons. This amendment would convert all .50 BMG firearms to NFA weapons.

July, 2005: Senator Feinstein introduces bill SA1622 - Fifty-Caliber Exclusion to S.397. This amendment would modify SB397 to allow suits when the firearm involved was a .50 caliber weapon.

July, 2005: Senator Boxer introduces bill SA1633 - BATFE Safety Standards SA1633 - BATFE Safety Standards. This amendment allows law suits to continue/be brought if the product did not meet the safety standards as defined by the BATFE.

July, 2005: Senator Boxer introduces bill SA1634 - ‘Sporting Use’ on Domestic Handguns. Applying ’sporting use’ clause requirements to domestic handguns could, almost completely, dry up the handgun


Our founding fathers, past tyrants, etc. at 8:56 AM on September 4, 2019 | #13440 | reply | quote

#13440 Do you have any summary, conclusions, arguments or explanations? It's like a big pile of data. What do you make of it? Have you analyzed it?


Anonymous at 10:51 AM on September 4, 2019 | #13442 | reply | quote

The Nintendo Switch subreddit did a bunch of speech suppression re Blizzard's Hong Kong crap after Blizzard cancelled a Switch-related event:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/dieq3a/statement_from_the_rnintendoswitch_mod_team/

They admit they screwed up but no moderators will be removed from the mod team. And read this excuse:

> Since most of our moderators are located in the US, we have very little moderator coverage overnight, and so we were overwhelmed with trying to moderate the discussion and keep it from getting out of control.

If only we had more moderators to block stuff, we wouldn't have blocked too much stuff. (They mean it's too hard to block only the bad stuff, so they just blocked indiscriminately to save time, due to lack of manpower. Still a pretty sad excuse. Wouldn't a poorly moderated discussion be better than nothing? How is no content better than wild or chaotic content?)


Anonymous at 7:27 PM on October 17, 2019 | #13825 | reply | quote

(This is an unmoderated discussion forum. Discussion info.)