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Dancing Sucks

our culture puts a huge amount of effort into teaching kids to dance. it's part of some static memes. dancing is related to sex and courtship. dancing is also related to emotions. and dancing is related to having "fun" and being unserious (and thoughtless).

dancing is all over TV. it's taught to kids at very young ages. it's also officially part of school curriculums.

for preschool in california there's a bunch of goals for what they want kids to do like:

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/daprekindergarten.asp
1.1 Move in a variety of directed ways.
1.2 Imitate the movements shown.
:/

this one stood out to me:
2.3 Respond spontaneously to different types of music and rhythms.
this whole thing is planned, and the kid is required to learn to do it in a way his teachers approve of. it's not spontaneous, it's controlled by teachers. the people writing this document are lying scum.

Elliot Temple on May 8, 2016

Comments (59)

I don't like the title "Dancing Sucks"

Maybe the title should be something to do with forcing kids to dance.

Dancing doesn't suck. Dancing is great entertainment & Art.

Anonymous at 11:55 AM on May 8, 2016 | #5202
I like the way this blog is designed.

I also like the comments with Permalinks.

Anonymous at 11:56 AM on May 8, 2016 | #5203
i think dancing sucks and you like it because of static memes.

Anonymous at 12:22 PM on May 8, 2016 | #5206
>Dancing doesn't suck. Dancing is great entertainment & Art.

What's great about it

Mysterious J at 2:44 PM on May 8, 2016 | #5209
It's a fun way of exercising and learning to use your body in new ways. Improve coordination, improve strength. Combining learning a skill with exercise is a way of making staying fit fun. Being physically fit makes life easier.

I think the highly-formal dancing is bad. Too restrictive, not enough room for being creative (so blocking some learning about new ways of using your body).

Anonymous at 4:01 PM on May 8, 2016 | #5210
you come off as not understanding a word of the blog post, and not being interested in asking or learning what any of it means. your reasons dancing is good do not engage with any of the criticisms. e.g. it brings up static memes, you don't say a word about that.

actually you basically back the post up. you are presenting dancing as a great fit in a conventional lifestyle, which is appealing to conventional values. you care more about being sexually attractive than you care about reason. you want to make getting fit (sexually attractive) less unpleasant. you're a conventional person who finds dancing is a good fit in your anti-intellectual life.

Anonymous at 4:55 PM on May 8, 2016 | #5211
> I think the highly-formal dancing is bad. Too restrictive, not enough room for being creative (so blocking some learning about new ways of using your body).

that's the one type of dancing that might be ok. dancing with standards like that is hard and requires substantial skill. developing a lot of skill involves learning.

it's really telling that you hate dancing as a skill. you want to dance according to cultural trends and pretend it's free, rather than dance accordingly to clear goals where anyone admits what's going on.

Anonymous at 5:04 PM on May 8, 2016 | #5212
> you come off as not understanding a word of the blog post, and not being interested in asking or learning what any of it means. your reasons dancing is good do not engage with any of the criticisms. e.g. it brings up static memes, you don't say a word about that.

I was responding to the immediately preceding post. I was saying what's useful about it.

I don't really know or care about the static memes other people have related to dancing. I don't make those mistakes, so they're uninteresting to discuss. I guess if you make those mistakes, stop doing that? Work out how to get around them? Or if you can't I guess avoid dancing. idk, static memes are hard.

Do you think it's impossible to pursue an activity without engaging static memes culturally associated with it?

> you care more about being sexually attractive than you care about reason. you want to make getting fit (sexually attractive) less unpleasant

It's possible to pursue fitness with a goal other than attractiveness. Like I said, it makes life easier. Do you disagree with that? Do you want me to explain more? Seems like you've made up stuff I didn't say and are arguing with that rather than being interested in understanding what's being said.

> it's really telling that you hate dancing as a skill. you want to dance according to cultural trends and pretend it's free, rather than dance accordingly to clear goals where anyone admits what's going on.

I never said I had a problem with the skill of dancing. Just highly-formalised dancing. Learning techniques is good. Being stuck to a rigid structure that serves little purpose is not.

Like formal education. You get stuck in a framework which sucks and that makes the learning harder or unpleasant.

Anonymous at 5:28 PM on May 8, 2016 | #5213
> I don't make those mistakes, so they're uninteresting to discuss.

how do you know? you just seem casually, extremely arrogant. yet another fool who spends his life lying to himself, who can't introspect, but who seems to think introspection is trivial.

Anonymous at 5:37 PM on May 8, 2016 | #5214
>how do you know? you just seem casually, extremely arrogant. yet another fool who spends his life lying to himself, who can't introspect, but who seems to think introspection is trivial.

Where did you find arrogance in my post?

Anonymous at 4:34 AM on May 9, 2016 | #5217
the part i quoted is arrogant.

> I don't make those mistakes, so they're uninteresting to discuss.

you arrogantly believe you don't make those mistakes. i'm betting you do make them. you're so arrogant you don't even want to discuss it to get criticism and find out about a POTENTIAL mistake. you're so arrogantly overconfident you think you couldn't possibly be wrong, so discussion is pointless.

Anonymous at 5:39 AM on May 9, 2016 | #5220
>you arrogantly believe you don't make those mistakes. i'm betting you do make them. you're so arrogant you don't even want to discuss it to get criticism and find out about a POTENTIAL mistake. you're so arrogantly overconfident you think you couldn't possibly be wrong, so discussion is pointless.

You caught me.. I do make mistakes & I am arrogant.

Anonymous at 6:37 AM on May 9, 2016 | #5221
Social dancing is shit.

Michael Jackson is awesome.

Anonymous at 4:22 AM on May 10, 2016 | #5223
> Social dancing is shit.
>
> Michael Jackson is awesome.

he did social popularity dancing...

Anonymous at 4:27 AM on May 10, 2016 | #5224
>he did social popularity dancing...

He did skilled dancing.

Do you dislike all sorts of dancing philosophically?

Anonymous at 4:41 AM on May 10, 2016 | #5225
MJ made popular mainstream dance performances including sexual parts. he was an entertainer and performer for the public.

Anonymous at 4:45 AM on May 10, 2016 | #5226
>MJ made popular mainstream dance performances including sexual parts. he was an entertainer and performer for the public.

So? Is it supposed to be bad if the public likes it?

I am not understanding what you mean by sexual parts.

Do you mean if his dance moves that involve his pelvis?

Anonymous at 7:24 AM on May 10, 2016 | #5227
Annie are you okay?

Anonymous at 2:16 AM on May 13, 2016 | #5232

Not About Dancing

Anon makes a series of arguments and examples of why dancing might have value.

Anon is dismissed as arrogant and irrational (following static memes) and none of his points are engaged with. He was interested in discussing dancing, but the replies were about whether he himself is good or whether he has secret bad motives.

Why is this a good way to post?

This criticism (arrogance etc) could be made in any discussion. It's a general-purpose way to sabotage discussion of substance.

Anon made the mistake of claiming things about himself, which opened him up for attack and derailing of conversation.

But a good board would be able to maintain discussion of *issues rather than people*, despite people bringing themselves up.

Calvin at 1:38 AM on May 15, 2016 | #5238
Disagree with your summary. Note you didn't give quotes, specifics. No idea what good arguments you have in mind.

Anonymous at 1:59 AM on May 15, 2016 | #5241
and jfc it's a debate involving *at least two anons*. and you simply refer to some set of the comments, all by anon, as the ones by anon. that doesn't work.

Anonymous at 1:59 AM on May 15, 2016 | #5242
Calvin is 100% right..

Anonymous at 9:15 PM on May 15, 2016 | #5251
ur a retard

Anonymous at 10:11 PM on May 15, 2016 | #5252
how is saying "I don't make those mistakes, so they're uninteresting to discuss" not arrogant?

Anonymous at 11:14 PM on May 15, 2016 | #5253
maybe he's infallible

Anonymous at 11:19 PM on May 15, 2016 | #5254
do u think an infallible person could do faster-than-light communication by guessing what communications will come in later and always being right?

Anonymous at 11:19 PM on May 15, 2016 | #5255
good point, i think being infallible violates the speed of light!

Anonymous at 11:20 PM on May 15, 2016 | #5256
>good point, i think being infallible violates the speed of light!

how?

Anonymous at 3:41 AM on May 16, 2016 | #5257
Elliot is wise.

Listen to him.

Anonymous at 5:43 AM on May 16, 2016 | #5258
What kind of dance is allowed then?

Should the art of dancing be stopped permanently?

Somename K Person at 6:29 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5259
ur a retard

Anonymous at 6:31 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5260
> ur a retard

?

Anonymous at 6:52 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5261
If you don't want to answer my questions it is fine.

But why are you making a personal attack?

Anonymous at 6:54 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5262
no one said anything about disallowing dancing or stopping it.

huge straw man there.

maybe you're such an authoritarian you think that if something is sucked then some authority ought to be banning it!?

Anonymous at 6:55 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5263
>no one said anything about disallowing dancing or stopping it.

>huge straw man there.

>maybe you're such an authoritarian you think that if something is >sucked then some authority ought to be banning it!?

Yes, Misrepresenting the quote and attacking it is evil.

I do that without unknowingly. I have to correct it.

If someone asks me about ice cream I assume he wants me to stop eating ice cream.

I agree with Russ Weaver that Skilled Elite dancing is good.

Anonymous at 6:59 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5264
>maybe you're such an authoritarian you think that if something is sucked then some authority ought to be banning it!?

I meant personal ban.

Like: Objectivists don't dance anymore after they learned that it is bad from your post.

Anonymous at 7:12 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5265
banning stuff is a bad concept to think about for your personal life. bad way to treat yourself.

Anonymous at 7:14 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5266
i think reasonable people who understand this would not dance much in general. they wouldn't want to. they wouldn't be interested. it wouldn't seem appealing.

but they might think of some exceptions or special cases. they might think some dancing is ok in some circumstances. any case could be critically discussed.

no doubt someone could think of some imaginary case where dancing is good ... e.g. you're an undercover spy posing as a dancer, then you read this, then you can't quit dancing right away or you'll fuck up your mission.

and no doubt some people will think they have an exception when they don't, and will do some bad dancing.

Anonymous at 7:17 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5267
>banning stuff is a bad concept to think about for your personal life. bad way to treat yourself.

Then how should we treat it?

I am against social dancing,nightclubs & Children dancing but can't seem to stop watching skilled dancing groups doing weird cool moves.

Anonymous at 7:18 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5268
>i think reasonable people who understand this would not dance much in >general. they wouldn't want to. they wouldn't be interested. it >wouldn't seem appealing.

>but they might think of some exceptions or special cases. they might >think some dancing is ok in some circumstances. any case could be >critically discussed.

>no doubt someone could think of some imaginary case where dancing is >good ... e.g. you're an undercover spy posing as a dancer, then you >read this, then you can't quit dancing right away or you'll fuck up >your mission.

>and no doubt some people will think they have an exception when they >don't, and will do some bad dancing.

Yes, Undercover spy would be losing more by not dancing. So she should dance.

I don't like dancing personally.

I like to watch Michael Jackson or other dance groups dancing.

Anonymous at 7:21 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5269
>and no doubt some people will think they have an exception when they don't, and will do some bad dancing.

A lot of dancing is for social reasons now that I think about it.

Eg: Showing cool moves to your friends and comparing against each other.

Anonymous at 7:23 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5270
please stop adding ">" in the middle of paragraphs you quote here. put it at the start of each line only.

you may need to google word wrap, soft wrap, hard wrap, some stuff like that, to understand what you're doing.

Anonymous at 7:27 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5271
>please stop adding ">" in the middle of paragraphs you quote here. put it at the start of each line only.

>you may need to google word wrap, soft wrap, hard wrap, some stuff like that, to understand what you're doing.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Is the above *>*s okay?

Anonymous at 7:35 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5272
>i think reasonable people who understand this would not dance much in general. they wouldn't want to. they wouldn't be interested. it wouldn't seem appealing.

>but they might think of some exceptions or special cases. they might think some dancing is ok in some circumstances. any case could be critically discussed.

>no doubt someone could think of some imaginary case where dancing is good ... e.g. you're an undercover spy posing as a dancer, then you read this, then you can't quit dancing right away or you'll fuck up your mission.

>and no doubt some people will think they have an exception when they don't, and will do some bad dancing.

Yes, Undercover spy would be losing more by not dancing. So she should dance.

I don't like to dance personally.

I like to watch Michael Jackson or other dance groups dancing.

Anonymous at 8:06 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5273
>ur a retard

What was your purpose of calling me a retard?

What would that accomplish?

Would I run away? I don't think so.

Juno Temple at 11:45 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5276
ur quoting something that was said twice without specifying which one you mean. r u retarded or something?

Anonymous at 11:51 PM on May 16, 2016 | #5277
>ur quoting something that was said twice without specifying which one you mean. r u retarded or something?

I was quoting the second one.

You should have worded the second "retard" comment differently.
Quoting it would have been easier.

Anonymous at 12:37 AM on May 17, 2016 | #5278
FI doesn't believe in mental illness.

Anonymous at 12:40 AM on May 17, 2016 | #5279
> You should have worded the second "retard" comment differently.

you are assuming that the person who wrote

> ur quoting something that was said twice without specifying which one you mean. r u retarded or something?

also wrote both prior comments.

please don't.

> FI doesn't believe in mental illness.

i agree that being an idiot who posts massive hostile straw men isn't a mental illness. the word "retard" frequently means "idiot" not "mentally ill"

Anonymous at 12:42 AM on May 17, 2016 | #5280
>i agree that being an idiot who posts massive hostile straw men isn't a mental illness. the word "retard" frequently means "idiot" not "mentally ill"

Do you mean "idiot" -a person of low intelligence factually or in a insulting way?

Insults are for shaming. FI doesn't believe in shaming either.

Juno at 12:46 AM on May 17, 2016 | #5281
Stefan Moleneux believes in shaming & Social outcasting as a method in the post-government Libertarian world.

Anonymous at 12:48 AM on May 17, 2016 | #5282
if u want a more serious conversation maybe u should make a better effort and act like it.

Anonymous at 12:49 AM on May 17, 2016 | #5283
>if u want a more serious conversation maybe u should make a better effort and act like it.

I do want serious conversation.

I read FI daily.

I like Elliot's should focus on learning some things *successfully* – which will be much easier with some small and simple things – and then build on that success step by step, with some success at each step.

I stopped reading VOS as I was overreaching trying to read it.

I am reading FountainHead now. I am on the 54th Page now.

I have two read atleast 4 times to understand it.

Anonymous at 12:55 AM on May 17, 2016 | #5284
are you the same guy who was saying how MJ's dancing isn't sexual and doesn't give a single example of the dance ur trying to defend? cuz that didn't seem very serious.

why do you think you're understanding FH on 4th reading? you should post about it as you go along every few pages. i'll make an open thread.

curi at 12:57 AM on May 17, 2016 | #5285
>why do you think you're understanding FH on 4th reading? you should post about it as you go along every few pages. i'll make an open thread.

That is my guess.

Reading it multiple times is better than reading it once.

Yes, You are right that I might understand wrongly and reading it multiple times will only worsen my understanding.

Anonymous at 12:29 AM on May 18, 2016 | #5316
has anyone done that? post every few pages for the entire book? i think it is not easy for most people to keep that up over a book as big as FH.

did u learn FH by posting every few pages? if not, what was ur method?

Anonymous at 12:47 AM on May 18, 2016 | #5317
i don't think reading it multiples times makes anything worse. it's just hard. lots of people never understand it. 4 might not be enough. and there's other things to do besides reread. like discuss. discussing is a big deal.

i learned how to think well before i read FH. discussions were the most helpful, especially with DD.

i have read AS and FH 10 times each btw.

curi at 12:55 AM on May 18, 2016 | #5318
OP is American parochialism.

Dancing isn't as big a thing elsewhere. The UK doesn't have proms, etc.

Men are seen as effeminate if they're too into dancing.

Anonymous at 8:11 AM on May 18, 2016 | #5327
you are rationalizing by trying to pretend my view doesn't apply to you. people dance a lot in the UK.

Anonymous at 2:25 PM on May 18, 2016 | #5329

What do you think?

(This is a free speech zone!)