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Elliot Temple on February 18, 2004

Comments (12)

Are you claiming that MLK was the primary cause behind ending segregation and giving black people the vote?



Or even, one of a few primary causes?



And if so, was he more or less so than Malcolm X, a *Muslim*?


Dan at 4:36 AM on February 18, 2004 | #449

so you're pointing out that Malcom X was also religious? thanks.


Elliot at 5:08 AM on February 18, 2004 | #450

Archibishop Desmond Tutu is an archibishop.


Alice Bachini at 10:56 AM on February 18, 2004 | #451

And Winston Churchill was an eccentric free-thinker.


Alice at 10:57 AM on February 18, 2004 | #452

alice my thesis was neither of these:



- all Christians are open minded

- no atheists are r0xx0r



rather it is that social progress is possible in an all-Christian society. in other words, Christianity does not need outside help to improve.



and we're talking about present-day Christianity, not the dark ages or prior variety.



the basic point of this is that if, say, a billion muslims were converted to Christianity, this would not be the end of freedom, or a giant disaster for civil rights.


Elliot at 11:12 AM on February 18, 2004 | #453

Yeah, Malcolm X was very religious. When did I say that religion was compeltely wrong? Or even that Christianity was completely wrong?



Oh, yeah, *I didn't*.



"the basic point of this is that if, say, a billion muslims were converted to Christianity, this would not be the end of freedom, or a giant disaster for civil rights."



I agree with this, presupposing that there are in fact a billion muslims in the world. Which, considering the pupulation of the world, I would guess to be true.



What gave you the idea that I disagreed with that?


Dan Frank at 5:59 PM on February 18, 2004 | #454

i got the idea when you said you opposed converting Muslims to Christianity for fear of what would happen to civil rights with all those Christians.



i suppose you'll now claim you never said that. i hope you'll be so good remind us what you did say.


Elliot at 10:31 PM on February 18, 2004 | #455

No, I opposed converting *the entire world*.



I also think that converting Muslims to Christianity in itself wouldn't be *that* helpful. It would mostly be the influence of Western ideals not borne of Christianity that helped.



I apologize for being so unclear.


Dan at 11:19 PM on February 18, 2004 | #456

"Christianity does not need outside help to improve"



What about the bad parts of it? How does it improve those without ideas from outside?


Alice Bachini at 10:37 AM on February 19, 2004 | #457

Alice,



People can improve by introspection, right?


Elliot at 10:49 AM on February 19, 2004 | #458

People can get and test new conjectures from looking at what they already know?



How is this better than learning from other people who have learned new different things than oneself?


Alice at 9:32 AM on February 22, 2004 | #459

I didn't say better, I said possible.


Elliot at 9:46 AM on February 22, 2004 | #460

What do you think?

(This is a free speech zone!)