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📢 Learn BoI – Video 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBjKGSmuy1U

it's on a new YT channel so hit subscribe and ring the bell!
deroj 👍
Justin Mallone 🌌

Comments & Events

doubtingthomas
🔥
deroj
Why on a separate channel?
deroj
Also, why BoI and not FoR?

From http://fallibleideas.com/books#deutsch
I recommend reading FoR before BoI.

I’m not complaining, this seems really interesting and helpful. Just curious. 
Justin Mallone
Thought about this passage as I was watching the video and thinking about Elliot's comments:

  In this book I argue that all progress, both theoretical and practical, has resulted from a single human activity: the quest for what I call good explanations. Though this quest is uniquely human, its effectiveness is also a fundamental fact about reality at the most impersonal, cosmic level – namely that it conforms to universal laws of nature that are indeed good explanations. This simple relationship between the cosmic and the human is a hint of a central role of people in the cosmic scheme of things.

If the universe were an unintelligible mess then humans wouldn't be able to understand it. So the fact that this isn't the case - that we're able to make progress and understand the universe - says something important about the universe.
doubtingthomas
Liking video and commenting makes the algorithm recommend video to more people's feed.
doubtingthomas
Thumbnails also matter a lot. I don't remember it properly. I remember I saw it in some video I can't remember. It was probably this video.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
so, does anyone know how to make good yt thumbnails?
deroj
I think I can make pretty good thumbnails. It takes some creativity and trail and error and it’s a time consuming process (requires a fair amount of steps). I do not enjoy that process though. 
But if you do enjoy the process and are interested in making thumbnails I do not think it’s especially hard to learn to make pretty good ones. 
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
deroj's thumbnails:

My best performing video (views and it actually generates some comments from people I don't know) is the paddling one (over a longer time period it's been the Leffen stream highlight). Based on the average view duration, people who click on the paddling video are expecting something different than slides and explanation, though!

Justin Mallone
my thumbnail skills are pretty crap but i've tried to make them fast and fast has some virtue to it
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
for BoI analysis vids, i think i can just use one thumbnail template over and over. don't need to make different ones for each vid. yeah?
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
deroj
I think the same template thumbnail is fine. My guess is that thumbnails are more important for vids that compete for clicks where there is similar content available elsewhere. I could be mistaken though.

IIRC likes, comments, and key words in the description / “about section” of the vid (not sure those are the correct YT terms) are the most important things to rank high re YT algo. 
deroj
I think a logo of some sort would be nice. I liked what Charles Tew did with his logo. It was clean. 
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i like my collage ok. but i don't personally have the right tastes for YT thumbnails. i made the text bright for visibility but i think it looks awful.

logo could be good. philosophy logos are hard. i don't really like Tew's. i think it's boring and doesn't communicate much. i like his version with 2 gears more than the single gear logo.

with a logo it could be like EDITOR EXPLAINS on the top left with my logo under that, and some BoI stuff on the right.

anyone have logo ideas?

also it's harder to make a logo cuz i haven't decided whether i'll name the new site Critical Fallibilism or something else. i'd prefer a logo that isn't based on text or initials anyway though.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
text still pretty readable when shrinking to min size in Preview. i think YT sometimes makes smaller tho?
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i made the text a bit bigger and uploaded it since i figure it's better than nothing. i also added more description text per deroj's advice

Justin Mallone
collage thumbnail looks decent
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
font is helvetica neue (bold), which i believe is a standard font that's hard to go tooooo wrong with. i skimmed thru a bunch of fonts in Affinity Designer (just scroll thru menu and it keeps changing the font to currently highlighted one) and googled YT fonts but i don't really know what's good.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
videos now have tables of contents
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
Editor isn't a great word for me. People will expect more of a picky detail grammar kinda thing.

Editor is the term DD and I actually used (i sent him BoI "edits" which were more idea comments than grammar or wording edits, though i did both).

Collaborator is more accurate but i think a bit confusing.

Commenter is misleading.

colleague doesn't get across that i worked on the book.

i can't say something too strong. i was not even close to a co-author. but much more than is typical of these kinda things. i did a lot more than just get sent a draft and give some feedback once.

BoI acknowledgments says thx 4 suggesting corrections & improvements. accurate but doesn't fit in YT title and ppl will assume i did less than i did.

any ideas?
doubtingthomas
Some feedback from me. Got the idea from Elliot himself. The whole point starts from here [YouTube Link]. The point I want to focus on (starts at 5:06) is:

Polish is good when you're making a product for a lot of people.

I think the videos can be more polished because I guess the goal is to make the videos reach a lot of people.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
do you have specific polishing suggestions that you think would have a big impact?
doubtingthomas
You are taking pauses to think. The takes should be a finished product. Having a script can help. It sounds like you are confused about what you are saying. This is social stuff I think. If a person takes pauses then the listener thinks that the speaker hasn't thought about the idea and is making it up on the go.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i don't want to do scripted. if you really go in that direction you get someone else with more of a broadcast voice to read it. it's a lot of work and has other downsides. i don't know how to write scripts that sound natural when read, i don't know how to read scripts well, and i don't really want to do that.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
it's already gonna take ages just to do chapter 1. i wanna actually get through some of the book while going slow enough in enough detail for ppl to genuinely learn stuff. scripting and doing it in small takes with retakes would take like 5x longer, mb more, and the extra time would not be very fun or interesting to me. and sounding scripted/smart (based on things other than content)/etc is not where i have an advantage over other creators.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
tons of ppl are willing to listen to unscripted podcasts. my slide-based videos are more condensed and to the point than that.
doubtingthomas
On rethinking after getting criticism the idea I was proposing makes sense for broadcast level productions. Multiple takes and scripts are overkill. I was actually thinking about the skill of talking to an audience. As we know most people don't think like thinking for themselves. They want to be walked through a problem like a solved example in a mathematics textbook. The skill of talking to an audience is based on this I guess. You create an interesting problem for them and then walk them through it.

These are some guesses. I am trying to nail down the reason for popularity of such videos. [from YouTube channel 3Blue1Brown]. I guess the reason is how easy it makes for someone to walk through the problem.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
that video has a lot of production value like graphics and animation. it's a big channel. at a glance the content looks maybe ok but idk without really watching. might explain and help too little.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
people like "learning" that isn't hard, doesn't ask stuff of them, makes them feel smart/superior. the main way to accomplish that is if they don't actually learn anything significant like a useful skill. that makes it easy for them. ppl often like to learn just enough to know more than their friends and be able to say a few things but not actually do anything beyond a bit of talk.

i like these video essays ok but the there are no learning outcomes. you're just supposed to feel smart and cultured and artsy and you don't have to actually do anything. it gives you some stuff to say at parties or tell your friends so you can sound smart or clever. https://www.youtube.com/user/yacobg42

(btw i appreciate the feedback/discussion. i think this topic matters. i've thought about it)
doubtingthomas
it's a big channel

He started like this. He always made such videos with great animation which makes it a lot of fun for someone to follow.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i'm more interested in working on ideas than animations. i don't think animations would help much with learning. they're useful sometimes for some stuff. also ppl like to watch animations and think they understand more than they do.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
it's easier for most ppl to think they understood an animation or graphic they're looking at than a paragraph
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i want to try to help ppl actually understand some ideas from BoI and we'll see what happens if anything. my main focus is on things i think are useful to that goal.
doubtingthomas
and we'll see what happens if anything

this is an open problem. we don't know the effect of trying to reach more people. As I see it most people are real bad at reason so I expect not much growth. But attempting is obviously the right thing to do.

i want to try to help ppl actually understand some ideas from BoI

I'm super clear about this. I think everyone is super clear about this.
doubtingthomas
it gives you some stuff to say at parties or tell your friends so you can sound smart or clever

btw i appreciate the feedback/discussion. i think this topic matters. i've thought about it

I've wasted enough time on YouTube. Now I'm trying to put it to some good use. I can share a list of similar channels and then a breakdown can be attempted on them.

it's easier for most ppl to think they understood an animation or graphic they're looking at than a paragraph

I think it's also the case that some mathematical thinking is visual. That explains the why animation makes mathematical content more appealing. I think visuals help for non mathematical cases too but I'm not clear on the How and why?
doubtingthomas
so, does anyone know how to make good yt thumbnails?

there's a website called canva. They have some ready made templates too.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
yeah animations and graphics help with some topics more than others. the type of graphic matters too. i like tree diagrams but those use text. graphics with no text are harder to use for philosophy.

graphics are good for maps for history explainers https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMmaBzfCCwZ2KqaBJjkj0fw

graphics are good for speedrun explainers like https://www.youtube.com/user/BismuthWasTaken and https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtUbO6rBht0daVIOGML3c8w and many others

there are good graphics and animations for explaining old video game hardware here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwRqWnW5ZkVaP_lZF7caZ-g
doubtingthomas
My guess is that thumbnails are more important for vids that compete for clicks where there is similar content available elsewhere. I could be mistaken though.

IIRC likes, comments, and key words in the description / “about section” of the vid (not sure those are the correct YT terms) are the most important things to rank high re YT algo.

deroj deroj can you share some links / articles where you found this info?

My guess is that people click on an attractive thumbnail.
Anne B
I like this new thumbnail better. It's less cluttered. And I think it's more distinctive.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i dislike the desk stock photo background
Justin Mallone
doubtingthomas's version needs a partially transparent color block or something behind the text to help offset it from the background
Justin Mallone
i liked the text styling in doubtingthomas doubtingthomas 's version
Elliot, Fallible Ideas why?
Justin Mallone
if you're gonna do the desk thing it'd be better to have an image of the book and maybe have it at an angle or something
Justin Mallone
having name in thumbnail seems fine to me
Justin Mallone
re: why i liked text styling in doubting thomas's version, I can't explain it well but just thought it looked nice/professional/clean or something
doubtingthomas
the font is called Glacial Indifference.
deroj
can you share some links / articles where you found this info?

It was a while back so I don’t remember. I think I was web searching for ~“how to rank high on YouTube algorithm” or something like that.

My guess is that people click on an attractive thumbnail.

I too think ppl do click on an attractive thumbnail. I have two main criticisms of focusing on thumbnails too much though:

1) In order to see an attractive thumbnail the video first has to rank pretty well on the relevant search (w/ the algorithm) to show up at the top of the search results. If you can’t see the thumbnail you can’t click on it.

2) I don’t think that ppl who mainly make the choice of what to watch based on a thumbnail are the ppl Elliot is looking for (not his “kind of ppl” in Oist terms I guess). Ppl that mainly make their choice on thumbnail attractiveness might generate clicks but won’t actually watch the content. Clicks might help some, but I do not think that is the goal here.
doubtingthomas
better or worse?
Better. The book photo should not be edge to edge to edge as it creates a contrast. The red background should be present in all edges whether it is  red in your case or black in mine. That makes it look better. (This is a working theory).

not sure if my name should be there
Removing sounds good to me. Removing the whole things seems even better. No need to write 'explanations by ET' or 'philosopher explains it all'
doubtingthomas
I don’t think that ppl who mainly make the choice of what to watch based on a thumbnail

They're not mainly making the choice based on an attractive thumbnail but it is an subconscious factor

are the ppl Elliot is looking for

that will exclude almost everyone. We shouldn't be looking for those people rather we should be looking to change some people.
doubtingthomas
i dislike the desk stock photo background

any black background works. it shouldn't be a plain black colored image though.

doubtingthomas's version needs a partially transparent color block or something behind the text to help offset it from the background

good suggestion. I don't know how to do that. Canva doesn't have that feature I think.

if you're gonna do the desk thing it'd be better to have an image of the book and maybe have it at an angle or something

I thought of doing that but it starts looking weird. If the book was actually on the desk then your suggestion is a banger.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i think i'm talking in a way that someone who cares about thumbnails could like the video.

Removing the whole things seems even better. No need to write 'explanations by ET' or 'philosopher explains it all'

That sounds right

The red background should be present in all edges whether it is  red in your case or black in mine. That makes it look better.

That sounds wrong to me but here's a sample pic (ik the text is problematic):

doubtingthomas
with a logo it could be like EDITOR EXPLAINS on the top left with my logo under that, and some BoI stuff on the right.

like that. bottom right maybe

anyone have logo ideas?

2 gears inside a light bulb. or inside animated looking brain.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
2 gears inside a light bulb. or inside animated looking brain.

i think those are too cheesy and make it seem like ordinary tryhard pandering stuff that blends in with the rest
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
maybe a tree diagram or flow chart could work as a logo. could do solid color nodes with no text or small pics.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
a difficulty is making it clear to people that it's a logo. could be confusing.
doubtingthomas
That sounds wrong to me but here's a sample pic

the alignment has to be gotten right as well.

here it is with black background so the book cover blends into the background

plain bold colors are no no for background. rarely works.

Elliot, Fallible Ideas
the gradient and small cover just look bad to me. i don't get it.
doubtingthomas
the alignment has to be gotten right as well.

it can't be equidistant from top and bottom. the image shouldn't be too big.
deroj
They're not mainly making the choice based on an attractive thumbnail but it is an subconscious factor

That could be the case. I guess I’m not sure about who the target group is. If it’s ppl interested in BoI then there are no other BoI videos out there, so thumbnail wouldn’t make much of a difference.

that will exclude almost everyone. We shouldn't be looking for those people rather we should be looking to change some people.

Why shouldn’t we be looking for those ppl?
doubtingthomas
plain bold colors are no no for background. rarely works.

plain fails to catch the eye. too much detail makes it cluttered.
doubtingthomas
maybe a tree diagram or flow chart could work as a logo. could do solid color nodes with no text or small pics.

like it. solid colored nodes and make them really bold. make the two nodes of different shape and size. one a square and another a rectangle. Letter A as text in first node and B in second
deroj
i think i'm talking in a way that someone who cares about thumbnails could like the video

I agree. Is the goal to get as many viewers as possible?
In that case I think what doubtingthomas doubtingthomas wrote about script is the most important thing. Maybe if you make the content but outsource the producing process to someone good at making scripted things it doesn’t have to be too much of a hustle. Not sure.
I think that would be a crucial thing if getting the most views possible is an important goal. In that case a really good thumbnail makes a lot of sense to me. As well as some really good SEO:ing.
But that might not be what you are looking fore here. Maybe the goal is to just find an easy enough tweak that adds _some_ extra viewers?
doubtingthomas
If it’s ppl interested in BoI then there are no other BoI videos out there, so thumbnail wouldn’t make much of a difference.

if the videos start ranking high then it will start coming in as recommendations when people watch other pseudo-philosophy videos. Having a good thumbnail will matter there.

Why shouldn’t we be looking for those ppl?

we shouldn't be looking to make ppl who don't care about thumbnail kind of stuff as the main focus and not care about those who might be motivated by stuff like thumbnails and in effect exclude them.
deroj Makes sense
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
scripts are tons of work for every ep and changes the experience of making the video in a way i like less. a thumbnail template to use for the whole series is way less work and it doesn't do any harm to the philosophy content.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i don't get the pills pic
doubtingthomas
i don't get the pills pic

red pill thing. from matrix. anything with a bit of detail works. it has to look good as well. desk looks like a good setting. no detail is too simple and doesn't attract attention.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
a science background like a starry sky or other astronomy pic could be ok and relevant.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
these all look photoshopped to be super vibrant instead of looking like normal skies i see

Elliot, Fallible Ideas
stars+city adds human progress aspect, e.g. i'd rather use something like this than a desk

doubtingthomas
stars+city

love it

these all look photoshopped

some are time lapse also
deroj
scripts are tons of work for every ep and changes the experience of making the video in a way i like less. a thumbnail template to use for the whole series is way less work and it doesn't do any harm to the philosophy content.

Makes sense. 
deroj
Any reason to not get a freelance designer to make a custom template?
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
cuz they can't guess what i would want by themselves and collaborating with them is hard
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
what font is that DT?
deroj
Couldn’t you tell them like you tell us here?
deroj
I like the last one from DT. 
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
ppl outside the community would not understand the reasons for things i gave in this thread, based on what i wrote here
deroj
Ok
deroj
Maybe add a curi “c” somewhere? To start branding. You can always change the logo in the future.
doubtingthomas
what font is that DT?


GLACIAL INDIFFERENCE
deroj
doubtingthomas
can't find clear licensing info

won't matter much I guess. As the photo is not there in the video, if a copyright claim is made then an offer to buy can be made and it's also easy to change the thumbnail.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
is anyone going to read it as saying the video is by DD, or not realize it's about a book?
doubtingthomas
consider having different background for each episode. I like all the photos deroj shared. Each photo can be used for context specific video. the lightbulb one fits nicely with spark episode
deroj
is anyone going to read it as saying the video is by DD, or not realize it's about a book?

I didn’t think about this before you asked the question. But now I can see someone thinking that the vid is by DD. So I think it’s a possibility.
But as far as you add info about who is doing the analysis in the info section I don’t think it is a problem.
doubtingthomas
or not realize it's about a book?

the sentence in the thumbnail can be changed to

"Analyzing The Beginning of Infinity
a book by David Deutsch"
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
the sentence in the thumbnail can be changed to

more words is bad tho
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
and i suspect "book" is a bad word ppl don't click on
doubtingthomas
more words is bad tho

change the font size of the words "a book by". more words mostly looks bad because of cramping so decreasing font size of not important words is a possible solution

and i suspect "book" is a bad word ppl don't click on

that would be my guess too.
doubtingthomas
is anyone going to read it as saying the video is by DD

also you should mention at the start of every video that this is a video series. So when people watch it as a playlist they can get an idea of who you are.

You can add your qualifications under your name in the opening slide which is I guess common for every video.

Something like

"Elliot Temple
Editor of The Beginning of Infinity"
Anne B
Instead of "Analyzing David Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity", I like "Analysis of David Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity". I know it's adding a word, but I still like it better and can't say why.

Maybe put "The Beginning of Infinity" in a larger font than the other stuff as another way to set it off. And/or maybe don't put the other stuff in all caps.

Analysis of
David Deutsch's
THE
BEGINNING
OF INFINITY


With the first two lines in a smaller font. This puts DD's first and last name on the same line, which I think looks better.
Anne B
I agree that saying "Analyzing The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch" could be interpreted as the video itself being made by David Deutsch. Saying "Analyzing David Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity" eliminates that problem.
Justin Mallone
I was gonna suggest doing some nice pixabay photo as background to text earlier but i forgot.

In general, one combo of stuff I like is text + photo + some single simple icon that's relevant/topical. I think the text + photo looks good though. Consider whether a mostly transparent square might set off the text better from the background; might not need it here though
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
"Analysis of" might be better than "analyzing" b/c it uses a simple noun rather than a verbal (non-finite verb).
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
i don't like text readability issues. the one with the hand has some esp
doubtingthomas
i don't like text readability issues

i didn't try to solve that problem. that will be the easy problem which can be dealt with later. (I'm not good at that either. I will share the photo without text and so anyone else can solve the readability issue). Trying to get the design right was my first goal. I like the last design the best.
doubtingthomas
the one with the hand

which one is that? I posted 4 right now. Order them from 1 to 4?
Justin Mallone
the "part x" text was getting truncated but new title format works better
Justin Mallone
part 4 thumbnail looks most pro of those imho. maybe put part number in thumbnail as well?
deroj
Current thumbnail (vid 4) looks much better than before.
Max Kaye
I was thinking about thumbnails tonight:

I liked ep3's thumnail the most, but mostly that was first impressions. ep4 has a "better" thumbnail in that it's more polished but IMO the thumbnail isn't more effective in an enduring sense.

I think there are two important bits of info missing from the thumbnail (and mb the titles too): the chapter and the the part number of the chapter -- e.g., "chapter 2 part 1". one reason that this is important is that (I guess that) the videos are being made to be enduring. For someone starting out this info isn't as important, but for someone returning it's important that they can find info quickly. In essence it's O(log n) vs O(1); i.e. searching multiple vids vs searching 1 vid. There's also a section of the audience that will be somewhat familiar with BoI or want to share a particular part. I think it's wise for each vid to have something about 'how to watch this series' at the start, but also that it's good if ppl can easily find stuff that they want to. Finally, I probs won't watch every vid, but I almost certainly will watch vids on chapters I'm particularly interested in. My learning strats might not be optimal there, but watching m/n vids is better than watching ~3/n vids. Including chapter number + part number seems to provide a bunch of benefit and little downside.
Firebench
The thumbnail for part 4 looks much more professional than the others. 

I agree with Max that it's useful to know which chapters are covered in each video. There's no need to clutter the thumbnails with that information. If the chapters are tackled in more or less ascending order, and what's covered is included in the video description, a binary search should not be particularly onerous for finding the video(s) covering a specific chapter. 

I would suggest writing the chapter information at the start of the video description, so that viewers don't have to click "SHOW MORE" to find it. You did that for parts 1-3, but not for part 4, presumably because it's not directly discussing any chapter. It would be better if the description mentioned that it was a digression and included the chapter number which prompted it.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
Agree not to clutter thumbnails. Will Add chapter to p4 description 
doubtingthomas
Consider liking and commenting on the videos. Not sure how effective that is but YouTubers keep talking about that. Start having discussion in the comment section.
doubtingthomas
Sharing and subscribing is also important
doubtingthomas
why did you stop?
doubtingthomas
tons of ppl are willing to listen to unscripted podcasts. my slide-based videos are more condensed and to the point than that.

I have a suggestion on this. Most of these unscripted podcasts have a conversation partner. I don't know whether it will have significant effect but I think this format works better that way. Worth trying I feel.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
the primary reason for the conversation partner is that people (the audience) are trying to be entertained, not trying to learn. also it helps make up for hosts without much to say.
doubtingthomas
makes sense. people listening use conversation partner to reason socially. for example if the partner is agreeing then what the host said must have made sense
doubtingthomas
is it the same thing? I'm not sure. In my mind it was.

it = social reasoning and entertainment. people who are reasoning socially are actually looking for entertainment rather than learning. That's my guess. It seems right to me.