FI Learning

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😊 On Szasz.

I'm not clear on what his views actually are. I wanna make sure my understanding related to his field of work is pretty much correct (I have been advising someone who thinks they have a mental illness). As I understand it his field of work included what is called psychiatry in modern medicine which includes Schizophrenia, Depression and Personality disorders.

My understanding of this area is based on my (limited) understanding of FI. I'm guessing the following is what FI would say about this matter.

Approximately Psychiatrists are characterizing a set of bad autopilots as a disease like diabetes. Depression would be one set and other personality disorders would be another sets. Bad ideas travel in group so some autopilots will overlap which would mean people can have Anxiety and Depression together.

The method to improve these bad autopilots is conjecture and criticism. It will be hard. Question: Is it the level of hardness like learning anything else? Like classical physics for example? Or is it harder because static memes have knowledge to fight back against criticism on them?

This should be an inconsistency which Psychiatrists should try to make sense of. If a disease can be treated with talking (with a therapist) how can it be a disease? I don't think it's possible to make this fact consistent with the psychiatry world view which would mean psychiatry is wrong.

I will post an interesting quote from Jordan Peterson related to this matter below. I think it fits within the FI world view.

The people I listen to need to talk, because that’s how people think. People need to think…True thinking is complex and demanding. It requires you to be an articulate speaker and careful, judicious listener at the same time. It involves conflict. So you have to tolerate conflict. Conflict involves negotiation and compromise. So, you have to learn to give and take and to modify your premises and adjust your thoughts – even your perceptions of the world…Thinking is emotionally painful and physiologically demanding, more so than anything else – except not thinking. But you have to be very articulate and sophisticated to have all this thinking occur inside your own head. What are you to do, then, if you aren’t very good at thinking, at being two people at one time? That’s easy. You talk. But you need someone to listen. A listening person is your collaborator and your opponent […]

The fact is important enough to bear repeating: people organize their brains through conversation. If they don’t have anyone to tell their story to, they lose their minds. Like hoarders, they cannot unclutter themselves. The input of the community is required for the integrity of the individual psyche. To put it another way: it takes a village to build a mind.

Comments & Events

Elliot, Fallible Ideas
I don’t think you should be attempting to give smart, rational, unconventional advice about psychiatry. You don’t know much about it and are likely to do more harm than good. 
I agree. I didn't give any advice. I made a mistake above when I said I am advising someone. I only pointed the things I said above. The person agreed with me. The person is barely suffering if at all. The person is a doctor himself and was considering considering a low dose of some medication they read about during their studies. They were gonna take a psychiatric consultation regarding this matter. I suggested that they should instead work on improving what they consider their problematic behaviour themselves or with a therapist if they feel so.

I think deciding to take the medicine in this case would've done more harm so I believe I helped.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
That is giving advice. 
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
I didn't give any advice.
Yup. I didn't understand that I actually gave advice.
I won't be giving anymore advice I guess because the situation doesn't demand it. The person agreed with me and decided that they will be better off working on their behavioral problem themselves or with a therapist if need be.
I didn't tell them about static memes or autopilot. I showed them the Jordan Peterson stuff. Jordan references Szasz in one of his lecture. So I guess I didn't give any substantial advice. I mostly passed on Jordan Peterson's advice. Which I guess is: writing down stuff or talking with someone helps get your thoughts straight and that helps you identify and work on problem you think you have. And conventional knowledge that psychiatric medicine are not required in mild cases.
You don’t know much about it and are likely to do more harm than good.

I would've considered myself mentally ill a few years. That changed after I read DD in depth. I started following unconventional advice and decided to work on problems myself. Do you think that was not the right decision?
The unconventional path did create more problems and was harder path as well but I believe I am better off now.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
Do you think that was not the right decision?

I don't know. I'm missing lots of info.

Giving advice (especially individualized/customized/personalized advice) to other people is different and harder than making choices for yourself. Missing info is one of the reasons.
Makes sense.
My attitude in general when I interact here is that I am wrong about most things (because I haven't learnt them yet). I don't know what I am wrong about in all the things I said above. I would like to know some. I think the things I believe and wrote down are simple basic points so I believe I am right about them.

I still don't think that I should be giving advice even if I am right about these basic points because giving advice would require drawing some complex conclusions from these basic points which I will mess up a lot because I don't have mastery.
Elliot, Fallible Ideas
(Because you asked:)

Approximately Psychiatrists are characterizing a set of bad autopilots as a disease like diabetes. 

This is wrong. Neither Szasz nor I has made that claim, and I disagree with it. You are not stating simple basic points. Your understanding of the matter is confused and has errors throughout.
Your understanding of the matter is confused and has errors throughout.

Even though I don't know what all the errors are, I think I would be better off leaving this area of knowledge alone for now because of the possibility of doing more harm than good. When I do decide to come back to it I would look to discuss these ideas and only then assume that I have the basic points right.