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help, my partner isn't ARR! a practical guide

i want my partner to be more Autonomy Respecting in our Relationship.

well, there's 5000 posts at the ARR Yahoo Group.

they can read them, discuss on FI, and become ARR.

but they won't do that!!!!

well then ATD.

no, they're so great, we can make it work.

umm how? if they don't wanna reason, how is stuff gonna work?

well you tell me, mrs. fancypants guide author.

if you want a contradiction, too bad. a guide can't help.

can't i just like be ARR myself and tell them a few things like i'm gonna have my own room now and don't be a needy helpless dependent bitch? and if i don't follow all my socially expected roles, get over it.

they might put up with that, for now, if it seems like they can't negotiate a better deal and don't want to find someone else yet. but why would they like and appreciate that? aren't you just kinda burning good will? even if they say it's fine, why would it be? it's not what they signed up for and they haven't rationally learned better ideas. they are just compromising.

no they totally understand, cuz i told them ARR, even tho they won't read it or discuss it properly.

no.

yes.

no.

yes way.

look, even if they wanted to disagree with you, most people don't know how to argue back any of the stuff you're saying. and if they do agree but don't know any rational arguments, they won't know how to express it. just cuz someone says they agree and seems to go along with stuff doesn't mean much because the same people who won't discuss it on FI also lack the skills to express/get what they want IRL.

so we're doomed?

yup.

doom and gloom? pessimism? sadness for eternity?

uhh, anyone who genuinely wants to think has that option. for those who don't, yeah it's grim. this isn't a negative view. it's quite a nice situation. choose life, choose reason, and you're fine.

If you need some help with that, besides FI, read Ayn Rand.

Elliot Temple on May 26, 2015

Comments (11)

>if they don't wanna reason, how is stuff gonna work?

it won't work cuz *reason* needs to be the basis for the whole relationship (if the relationship is truth-seeking / rational / ARR). the other stable option which could reliably work is having a static relationship.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Autonomy-Respecting-Relationships/conversations/topics/184

DD wrote:

>The viability [of] traditional relationships depends on suppressing all but the favoured theories, but the viability of a consensual relationship depends on *solving
the problems* that these conflicts create. And that's only partly because
the problems cause trouble if unresolved; it's also because the stream of
knowledge created by solving problems (which is the only possible way of
creating knowledge) is the positive fuel that powers the relationship.

the last part about the knowledge being the positive fuel seems vague to me. is he saying that it feels good to solve problems with someone in a truth-seeking relationship, so this becomes fuel which powers both ppl to want to continue interacting?

Anonymous at 5:15 AM on October 15, 2016 | #6824
Anal Then Dump??!!

FF at 9:08 AM on October 15, 2016 | #6825
@#6825

no awareness of tone??!!

you sound like an Ann Coulter critic.

Anonymous at 10:03 AM on October 15, 2016 | #6826
@#6824

why have you decided not to learn what line breaks are and how they work and how to edit them?

do you find learning anything at all very hard, so this is a big burden?

do you think your comment came out just fine?

do you think line breaks are a big problem, not a tiny little one?

> is he saying that it feels good to solve problems with someone in a truth-seeking relationship, so this becomes fuel which powers both ppl to want to continue interacting?

no. where do you think he spoke about what *feels good*?

Anonymous at 10:06 AM on October 15, 2016 | #6827
the DD quote came out like crap. i don't want that to happen again. i think it's a big problem.

@line breaks - i haven't been in a situation before where i've noticed that i need to learn them. i'm in that situation now. i don't think it'll be a big burden to learn this.

so how do i prevent my quotes looking fucked up like that?


>no. where do you think he spoke about what *feels good*?

he didn't explicitly say that somewhere. but i don't know what it means for something to be "the positive fuel that powers the relationship".

how do you power a relationship? also, when you solve problems its fun, joyful, you feel happy -- so maybe he's thinking this positive emotion is the fuel which keeps both participants interacting and jointly solving more and more and more problems? if not, what does he mean by this section?

Anonymous at 11:24 AM on October 15, 2016 | #6828
> @line breaks - i haven't been in a situation before where i've noticed that i need to learn them. i'm in that situation now. i don't think it'll be a big burden to learn this.

if you're who i think, it's come a bunch of times before in emails.

> so how do i prevent my quotes looking fucked up like that?

why don't you look into it on *your own initiative* and ask a question if/when you run into a *problem*?



> how do you power a relationship? also, when you solve problems its fun, joyful, you feel happy -- so maybe he's thinking this positive emotion is the fuel which keeps both participants interacting and jointly solving more and more and more problems? if not, what does he mean by this section?

you're strongly reading your own biases into this that have nothing to do with the text.

it's the knowledge creation and solutions *themselves* that DD values and talks about, not feelings about them.

Anonymous at 11:52 AM on October 15, 2016 | #6829
>>so we're doomed?

>yup.

what if there are kids? aren't they going to be hurt and damaged in some way?

some ppl stay together for the sake of the kids, which is bad. it'd be lying. it'd be a sacrifice. it'd be coercive. and these bad things going on would affect the kids, too.

better to find a common preference (including the kid in on that). what else is mistaken about the idea of staying together for the sake of the kids?

Anonymous at 11:57 AM on October 15, 2016 | #6830
> what if there are kids? aren't they going to be hurt and damaged in some way?

yes, kids will be hurt by irrational parents who don't want to *learn*, read, discuss, find out what common preferences are and how to find them, etc

Anonymous at 11:59 AM on October 15, 2016 | #6831
i figured out a way to remove line breaks. paste the text in pages, then do this.

https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/pages-finding-replacing-invisible-characters

it's not hard, but i want to ask/verify 2 things.

first, is there a better way?

second, so as long as the quoted para i paste here doesn't have line breaks and i include one quote symbol at the start, then will the entire para be quoted properly (i.e. be the proper color)?

Anonymous at 12:46 PM on October 15, 2016 | #6832
you could use a text editor with regular expressions, or with a reformat text feature, or make a script. regular expressions are more powerful and will let you clean up messier cases.

correct that quote marks apply until the end of the line

Anonymous at 12:51 PM on October 15, 2016 | #6833
btw using Pages is NOT a solution i would have suggested. i didn't know it could show invisibles, and i didn't know it was an app you're already familiar with (so it's better than suggesting an app you've never used before). searching for yourself worked better.

Anonymous at 12:59 PM on October 15, 2016 | #6834

What do you think?

(This is a free speech zone!)