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Evaporating Clouds

Topic for discussing Evaporating Clouds (aka Conflict Clouds). Share Clouds and discuss solutions!

Evaporating Clouds are a problem solving tool created by Eli Goldratt. Learn about them from his books: Read The Goal then It's Not Luck (the sequel which explains Clouds). They are easy to read novels. I also highly recommend everyone read Goldratt's The Choice. It's about philosophy discussions with his daughter and it's also easy reading.

You can also learn about Conflict Clouds by signing up for the $5/month Media Posts tier on my SubscribeStar (support my work and get perks – like Patreon). Today I posted a summary of how Conflict Clouds work with a bunch of examples. Here's a preview image showing the info shared:

Elliot Temple on April 9, 2020

Messages (9)

Doubting Thomas Clouds

I had a hard time discussing with Doubting Thomas (DT) on Discord recently. He left so he'll probably never see this (but I'll go send him a friend request right now and see if I can share a link). But I made some Clouds anyway. Anyone have ideas about how to solve these? I find them hard because I found DT unreasonable. I can think of many potential solutions to the Clouds, but for each one I think DT would unreasonably reject it (or say he agreed and then not do it). We got stuck. In my opinion, he was a blatant liar, e.g. he said he didn't do X, then two messages later he said that he had done X on purpose and gave reasons why it was good to do X. He was unwilling or unable to follow simple instructions and many of his messages were (IMO) in English too broken to clearly determine what he meant. I think that was more from sloppiness than inability – I think his English was good enough to communicate if he tried to use simple words, sentences and paragraphs to communicate simple ideas.

curi at 11:29 AM on April 9, 2020 | #16326 | reply | quote

DT Clouds part 2

#16326 I two more Clouds about the DT problem from my perspective. This helps explain why I tried to get DT to make a tree himself (and I try to get lots of people to do their own trees).

curi at 11:50 AM on April 9, 2020 | #16327 | reply | quote

Evaporating Clouds on Wikipedia:


curi at 12:54 PM on April 9, 2020 | #16328 | reply | quote

Are trees also usefull to organize your own knowledge even if it's not for discussion? I want to start organizing my ideas to understand them better and to share them with the FI community.

Anonymous at 9:37 AM on April 10, 2020 | #16341 | reply | quote

#16341 Yes, see https://curi.us/2311-making-idea-trees

Evaporating Clouds are one specific kind of tree for looking at a conflict.

curi at 9:42 AM on April 10, 2020 | #16342 | reply | quote

Rational thinking is really a lot like rational discussion where you say stuff for both sides. Or put a different way, rational discussion is like thinking out loud. Thinking and discussion are fundamentally the same sort of activity where you organize ideas, brainstorm, criticize, etc.

So whether you're going to tell people your ideas or not doesn't change much.

curi at 9:43 AM on April 10, 2020 | #16343 | reply | quote

Example cloud

I made an example cloud to try out making clouds

Justin Mallone at 12:46 PM on April 10, 2020 | #16346 | reply | quote

can this timeline evaporate?

Anonymous at 4:52 PM on April 10, 2020 | #16348 | reply | quote

Anonymous at 10:01 PM on April 20, 2020 | #16407 | reply | quote

Want to discuss this? Join my forum.

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