Since the deinstitutionalization movement of the 1960s, civil commitment in the United States almost always requires a finding of dangerousness -- both imminent and physical -- as determined by a judge.Coulter wants to take away the freedom of people whom she considers dangerous in a non-imminent, non-physical way.
For non-imminent, I understand what that means. It means there's no immediate danger, but there's fear a person might be dangerous in some way at some future date. That sounds to me like it applies to everyone. The future is not predictable like this – at least not well enough to ruin someone's life and lock them up without a jury trial.
This is an ridiculous standard for jailing someone – not just for a crime they didn't commit, but for an imaginary crime that may or may not happen one day.
For non-physical, I don't really know what Coulter is talking about. Is she saying that in addition to locking people up who are potentially dangerous in the sense of physical violence, we should also lock up people we're concerned are mentally ill enough to commit wire fraud? I disagree.
The danger Coulter repeatedly brings up in the article is mass murder. But she's using it to advocate initiating force against people who are dangerous in some non-physical way which isn't mass murder. She doesn't even mention which non-physical dangers she wants people to lose their freedom over. That's dishonest.
Most of the rest of the world has more reasonable standards -- you might almost call them "common sense" -- allowing family, friends and even acquaintances to petition for involuntarily commitment, with the final decision made by doctors.The idea is: acquaintances plus doctors can have anyone locked up. Remember the idea of innocent until proven guilty? Remember the idea of a jury of your peers? Remember due process? Forget all that. Doctors, some of whom work for the government, are going to be judge, jury, and imprisoner. Sound fun? Sound like reasonable common sense?
The result of our laissez-faire approach to dangerous psychotics...
Why not force Democrats to defend the right of the dangerous mentally ill not to take their medicine?
Democrats won't be able to help themselves, but to instantly close ranks and defend dangerous psychotics...Remember that when Coulter writes "dangerous" in these sentences, she means "non-imminently or non-physically dangerous". Otherwise the current laws would cover it.
She's complaining about a laissez-faire approach to people who aren't dangerous right now. But if there's no problem right now, leaving it alone makes more sense than locking someone in a thoughtcrime jail and then forcibly drugging them, without a trial, doesn't it?
Make no mistake about it. Involuntary commitment in a mental hospital is imprisonment the same as in a jail. Just without the defense lawyer, and without all the safeguards against abuse that our court system contains. This is an dangerous attack on liberty.
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Rami, do you think you were effective in this discussion?
Let me know when you can diagnose paranoid schizophrenia during an autopsy.
ASD shaming is mean
> Wait, why is Oxford boy more interesting than my drawings? He's getting a lot of attention. I resent that.
lol. a lot of that attention is from you...
> Elliot is really good, he's the less corrupted person I ever met. You really should humble a bit and learn all you can from him.
> You don't know my gender or where I'm from. You're wrong on both counts.
Is it OK if I guess those things, or would you be upset about being outed?
> lol. i raised my son TCS as a baby. and as a toddler.
>
> it was later i slowly gave it up, because i was angry with tcs ppl.
later
> I'm very low rank in FI. You shouldn't group me with the others, I think. And assume what I say is what Elliot would say or what others more advanced would say.
>
> I think it's bad if you take what I say as representative of TCS or FI.
How did you TCS your baby and toddler without knowing enough about TCS to speak as a representative of it?
>And [dont't] assume what I say is what Elliot would say or what others more advanced would say.
if u know there are *others* more advanced than u, then y do u think that u could fight Lulie for the #2 spot? if u managed to eliminate her, it would just go to someone else
> lol. i raised my son TCS as a baby. and as a toddler.
>
> it was later i slowly gave it up, because i was angry with tcs ppl.
Why did you get angry?
> I'm very low rank in FI. You shouldn't group me with the others, I think. And assume what I say is what Elliot would say or what others more advanced would say.
>
> I think it's bad if you take what I say as representative of TCS or FI.
You have flashes of brilliant insight though you are a bit fucked up also. I like you're not at all pretentious. Keep posting.
Oh, you really should correct Elliot on his misinterpretation of your comment where he thought you were initiating force. I read it as you saying Anon would regret wasting time on you. He seems to have ignored my comment on this.
> He seems to have ignored my comment on this.
Elliot ignores everything he doesn't have an immediate answer to. He's a bad philosopher because of this.
>You have flashes of brilliant insight
What are some examples of brilliant insight Leo has had?
I noticed.
>I noticed.
You noticed what?
> What are some examples of brilliant insight Leo has had?
I also didn't provide examples of why she's fucked up but you didn't ask about that. Why not? Do you doubt one but not the other?
>> What are some examples of brilliant insight Leo has had?
> I also didn't provide examples of why she's fucked up but you didn't ask about that. Why not? Do you doubt one but not the other?
I already know examples of how she is fucked up.
but u kno of no examples of how she can be good too?
btw, look how effective Leo is in this thread. she's got punch and spark. she writes insightful stuff like this:
> the term transphobia assumes that any opinion contrary to what current trans culture wants to impose as the truth is to be rejected as not even an opinion.
> what i personally don't like about the gay and trans scene is the "born this way" idea. and trans now being a medical diagnosis.
> i'd like to see people assuming it as a choice, because it is a choice. hey, got bored of being a man, i want to know what being a woman is like.
Nice analogy that shows the flash of brilliance I was talking about:
> There's no reason for optimism if you let yourself become grey by
letting grey in.
> Imagine you have white paint and a little black drops in it. If you
don't remove the black straight away and allow it to mix with the
white, the white will be tainted forever. Adding more white to paint
that was tainted by black won't ever make the paint as white as it was
before. Removing the black straight away is possible but it's
difficult and can cause the paint to mix. And you can't remove black
safely from white paint without taking some white paint away. It will
cause permanent damage. To fix the damage you need to add pure white.
And this is where you are at danger if you forgive whites that seem
"white enough" in you. And you are content that you are not pure
black.
> Rami, do you think you were effective in this discussion?
A tiny bit. I think I was able to create some agreement between anon and I. That helps create jumping off points to deal with our disagreements better.
many of those agreements revealed that our positions deviate from each other even more than I originally expected. this is effective.
I'm open to criticism about what I could have done better.
>> Wait, why is Oxford boy more interesting than my drawings? He's getting a lot of attention. I resent that.
>
> lol. a lot of that attention is from you...
lol. you got me there. and i could have been drawing but i'm stuck in a couple problems.
>> I think it's bad if you take what I say as representative of TCS or FI.
>
> How did you TCS your baby and toddler without knowing enough about TCS to speak as a representative of it?
'cause i stopped being tcs. i was away for ages. i was intentionally not being tcs. i got involved in other stuff.
>>And [dont't] assume what I say is what Elliot would say or what others more advanced would say.
>
>if u know there are *others* more advanced than u, then y do u think that u could fight Lulie for the #2 spot? if u managed to eliminate her, it would just go to someone else
as long as it's not lulie having #2 it's fine.
>> lol. i raised my son TCS as a baby. and as a toddler.
>>
>> it was later i slowly gave it up, because i was angry with tcs ppl.
>
> Why did you get angry?
bad shit that happened.
>> What are some examples of brilliant insight Leo has had?
>
> I also didn't provide examples of why she's fucked up but you didn't ask about that. Why not? Do you doubt one but not the other?
lol.
maybe because he can see the fucked up but hasn't seen anything impressive.
> she's got punch and spark.
^_^
oh, a compliment. someone likes me on the internet.
wait, why are you tempting my bad second-handed side with your compliments?
To Leo
Are you assuming that anon is intentionally tempting you?
Oh, I saw "To Leo" and thought it was going to be a love declaration. Damn. lol.
> Are you assuming that anon is intentionally tempting you?
No. I was saying that in jest. Even if he is not intentionally tempting me, maybe it's good for him to know that complimenting people is appeasing their second-handedness.
But I said that mostly because I liked the compliment but then became aware it's bad to like compliments.
a compliment can be useful as a way to know that you're on the right track.
Leo
This is a bit tricky coz I kinda want to compliment you on ur response xD
What's compliment worthy about my response?
You were honest in your reaction but also made the very good point that complimenting a person is appeasing their second handedness. That is true of course only if the person is second-handed. If it is intended as an acknowledgement of the good for being good then I don't see a problem. Also compliments are criticism.
So DD was status oriented and wanted ppl to appease his second-handedness. Elliot wouldn't do that and they felll out - though I don't really know the story.
Elliot has given a brief account of some of the sorts of things about which he and DD disagree:
http://www.curi.us/1567-i-changed-my-mind-about-david-deutsch.
So you wrote all that abt DD and u got no comments apart from 4 negs? The agree-ers don't wanna say anything? There must b many agree-ers right coz otherwise u would hv got a lot more comments defending him.
> I believe I have communicated that David has the utmost intellectual integrity and responsibility. He does not. I thought he did; I was surprised when he acted otherwise; I've changed my mind.
How did he act otherwise?
Elliot:
> For non-physical, I don't really know what Coulter is talking about. Is she saying that in addition to locking people up who are potentially dangerous in the sense of physical violence, we should also lock up people we're concerned are mentally ill enough to commit wire fraud? I disagree.
You're talking about "mentally ill" as if it's real. Why are you compromising on that? I'm sure there's a way you could get your point across without implying you agree with something you don't.