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Mario Odyssey Discussion

This topic is for discussing Super Mario Odyssey (for Nintendo Switch).

Speedrunning this game is a good way to learn for people who have a hard time learning (~everyone) and who already like video games.

Single player games are best because you don't have to deal with other people. Other people are complicated and dealing with them is a big issue which distracts from the gameplay.

Single player games are mostly too easy. They don't challenge you enough. Speedrunning solves that problem by giving you a goal to work towards where taking on extra challenges gets you better results.

Mario Odyssey is a popular, modern game (in general and specifically for speedrunning) which is highly accessible (both for regular play and speedrunning). It has video guides for speedrunning, various speedrunners who stream on Twitch, and plenty of walkthroughs for regular play. It can easily be broken up into small parts to learn about one at a time, and you can practice a few minutes at a time and then pause. It's complex enough to have depth without being too complicated. It doesn't have much randomness or AI to deal with. It has some glitches but not a ton, and you don't need to do any until you're a very advanced speedrunner. The any% speedrun is a good length. Those are some reasons it's a good game choice. It's also beneficially if a bunch of philosophy-interested people play the same game so they can discuss it, so don't choose a different game that seems a little more appealing to you, it'd only make sense to play a different game if it was a lot better for you for some reason.

(Mario Odyssey has few downsides. The biggest one is it uses motion controls some. It also takes more work to record videos of console gameplay than Mac or PC gameplay, and you need a Switch.)

By playing Mario Odyssey, you can learn what it's like to get good and something and succeed. You can see how practice works and things that used to be hard become easy. Learn to practice efficiently. Learn to write down notes, to review videos (like other people's speedruns) and get useful help from them, and learn to remember a bunch of information. You can see what correcting errors is like. You can see what getting details right is like and succeed with high quality standards. You can see how to build up your skills. First you learn how to do basic movement. Then you practice until it doesn't take much attention anymore. Then you can learn harder combinations of movement which build on the basic things. Now that the basic things are easy for you, your attention is free to focus on combined sequences.

Speedrunning gives you clear metrics for success and failure, which makes it much easier to learn. Did you reach the location you were trying to jump to or fall down? What does the timer say about what you're doing? One of the main reasons people have trouble learning philosophy, and many other things, is because they don't know when they're doing it right or not. They want to fix their errors, but they don't know which things are errors and which are correct. With speedrunning, you can also compare what you did to videos of what faster runners and figure out specifically how your approach is inferior (so you don't just know that you made an error, you also can get good info about what to do differently).

Overall, doing everything may not be easy, but it's easier than learning philosophy. So if you're having a hard time learning philosophy, like most people, this is an easier place to begin. You can work on your ability to learn, find and fix errors, not get frustrated, be persistent over time, and so on, without the added difficulty of trying to understand hard philosophy ideas at the same time. Practice learning with something easier than philosophy so you aren't doing everything at once. And then, in the future, when you learn philosophy ideas about how to learn, you'll be able apply them to examples from your Mario Odyssey experience. This is something lots of people can do well, it doesn't take a "genius" (philosophy doesn't take a "genius" either but many people think it does).

You have to learn the game before you speedrun it. That's step one. Play it normally first and get used to it. If you start getting bored playing normally, or finish everything, then switch to practicing the speedrun.


Elliot Temple on May 13, 2019

Comments (141)

Assumes ability

Video games are not a good surrogate for philosophy for me. I have MS, so my fingers don't always do what I want. I may know precisely where I need to jump to, but not be able to jump there because I can't maneuver the cursor to the appropriate point. Intention tremors make even entering passwords difficult, and that's with no time limits. Even the concept of speedrunning is laughable; the tremors get worse if I'm in a hurry.

I wonder if there is some non-dexterity-critical, non-speed-critical exercise that is easier than learning philosophy but will help me to master needed skills.


Kennita at 5:48 PM on May 13, 2019 | #12368 | reply | quote

#12368 There are many, e.g. learning how to analyze writing, word by word, to know what it means. I'm working on some material about that. But I don't know of great options that don't directly involve other people *and* make it easy to check how well you're doing (like the speedrun timer). When you come up with an interpretation of some text, there's no easy way to check if you're right or not. When you judge that some grammar usage is correct or incorrect, again no easy way to check if you're right.

Here are some options which i don't really recommend, i don't think they're great answers for this:

- find a turn-based video game game (removes speed and dexterity) and aim for a high score. but i don't know what games are good to maximize score in. it'd need to have enough depth, complexity and competition regarding score.

- tool-assisted speed run. people speedrun games one frame at a time with tools that let them back up and redo stuff. no dexterity or speed required, just game knowledge to know what to do.

- learn chess (or another board or card game with good computer opponents) and play against a computer opponent which lets you set the difficulty level, and turn up the difficulty after you can win pretty consistently.

- learn to program. you can get automatic feedback from the compiler (e.g. syntax error). you can run the program and see if it appears to do what you wanted it to do. you can write your own automated tests to help check the program does what you want.

- do math or logic problems which can be computer checked for correctness, or which already have good answers available.

---

I've been thinking about this but don't have a great solution for people besides speedrunning. That's my best answer. The problem is stuff like reading books doesn't give people good enough feedback on how well they're understanding stuff. I've tried to solve that problem with discussion forums, which help but most people don't want to use them. You could try discussing more but many people find that hard for a variety of reasons.

If I come up with a great answer to this problem, I'll share it. I'm trying. The speedrun's timer is hard to match.


curi at 9:15 PM on May 13, 2019 | #12369 | reply | quote

#12369 There's also playing 1v1 strategy-based video games, against other humans, which aren't too fast paced, e.g. Hearthstone, and which have a ranking system you can climb as you improve. If your rank is climbing, you're doing better. Hearthstone has too much randomness and the rank system wasn't very good last time I checked (they mostly reset your rank every month, so getting a high rank requires playing a lot of hours instead of building up to it over time). Magic the Gathering is more complicated game with better game design and more skill involved. still a lot of luck. harder to get into, less accessible, pretty expensive (i don't know how much you have to spend on Hearthstone nowadays if you don't spend a ton of hours earning cards, but i'm pretty sure MtG is worse). a lot of board games and card games aren't 1v1 which causes a lot of problems, but chess and go are options with plenty of competition available online and which can be played at a slow pace. they're big and hard projects though, kinda daunting, and not that appealing for most people (way less popular than Mario), and basically one is a confused beginner for hundreds of hours with chess or go, at least, and most players never actually get very good.


curi at 9:22 PM on May 13, 2019 | #12370 | reply | quote

The reason I'm focusing on *games* this much is they have clear rules, both about actions allowed and about what is success or failure, winning or losing. and the game world is much smaller and easier to master than the real world.

Young children learn motor skills and get feedback from reality about things like whether they moved an object or it didn't move as intended, whether they walked to a location or fell down and didn't get there, and lots of other pretty direct, straightforward results. that's pretty good feedback on whether you're succeeding or not. you could try to do something kinda similar as an adult with, say, shooting a gun at a target (or throwing a frisbee at a target, maybe playing frisbee golf, or regular golf). you'd get good feedback on how well you aimed. but there are lots of complications like gun quality and sights quality. and you kinda have to set your own goals. and it's a bit too simple of an activity in some ways, not enough strategy involved. hunting has more complexity and strategy, but less clear outcomes – you can go for days and not see the animal you're looking for, then miss because you only saw it at a distance and never got a good shot. and you have to live in the right place or travel. and you have to be in physical condition to do outdoors stuff like that, and be happy to. video games let you quickly reset and retry things, they make practicing convenient, whereas there's no way to spend an hour practicing shooting the same rabbit over and over and get hundreds of tries.


curi at 9:39 PM on May 13, 2019 | #12371 | reply | quote

I liked this video about speedrunning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV7cAQBsMjo


curi at 1:07 PM on May 14, 2019 | #12380 | reply | quote

#12369

>The problem is stuff like reading books doesn't give people good enough feedback on how well they're understanding stuff. I've tried to solve that problem with discussion forums, which help but most people don't want to use them.

Curi, would you be willing to do a "reading group discussion" here on OPAR ("Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand")? One chapter per week for example.

That could get a group of people to read the same content and discuss and learn from it in a better way.

You could guide us in advance - e.g. asking a question about the next chapter, or give pointers that are beneficial to learning new material.


Nikola at 12:26 AM on May 15, 2019 | #12388 | reply | quote

You are welcome to try to organize a reading group. I think if people aren't already reading and analyzing texts on their own initiative and schedule, making it a collaboration won't fix the problem.

If you say something substantive about OPAR, or have a question, many FI regulars could respond to you without having joined any group or having already read that chapter that week. Either they'd already have comments on the issue offhand or could quickly review specific, relevant passages (it's pretty common for the good posters to review book pages while writing a post, and to find those book pages themselves without being told).

For many years, I've encouraged people to read and discuss books, and I've explained how and why, and I've been available to answer questions and discuss a wide variety of books. People largely aren't interested.

Some people will fake interest due to a "reading group" in order to try to fit in with a social group. Some people think being pressured to read a chapter every week by other people will solve their motivation problems (the lack of their own motor). Or they want a teacher to tell them what to do – which is a role I don't want.


curi at 1:45 AM on May 15, 2019 | #12389 | reply | quote

#12389

>You are welcome to try to organize a reading group. I think if people aren't already reading and analyzing texts on their own initiative and schedule, making it a collaboration won't fix the problem.

>If you say something substantive about OPAR, or have a question, many FI regulars could respond to you without having joined any group or having already read that chapter that week. Either they'd already have comments on the issue offhand or could quickly review specific, relevant passages (it's pretty common for the good posters to review book pages while writing a post, and to find those book pages themselves without being told).

My reason for proposing doing it in group format is to raise and explore more questions. I might for example have two major questions on a particular chapter and someone else two different questions. Even though other people's questions aren't my primary questions they could turn out to be crucial for my understanding of the content better.

I am yet to start reading OPAR, but your suggestion of posting questions in the FI discussion group (if I understood you correctly) would be the second best thing (lacking the benefit of other people's questions).

Maybe someone else joins in once I start though - who knows.

>For many years, I've encouraged people to read and discuss books, and I've explained how and why, and I've been available to answer questions and discuss a wide variety of books. People largely aren't interested.

Yes, I know. Your arguments on the **What Books Should You Read?** (https://fallibleideas.com/books) have convinced me that there are far superior ways to learn from books than the way I'm used to: purely reading them. I'd rather improve than continue as before.

>*It’s very easy to misunderstand books you read. And a misunderstanding on page 2 can lead to a further misunderstanding on page 5 which causes another misunderstanding on page 8. You should expect to form over 100 misunderstandings per book-about-ideas you read alone. To do better, discuss books as you read them (don’t wait until the end of the book). Join the Fallible Ideas discussion group and share what you’re learning. The helpful membership has people who already understand these books and can offer corrections.*


Nikola at 5:45 AM on May 15, 2019 | #12391 | reply | quote

Reading Groups

#12391 Posting to the FI forum or curi forum doesn't really matter. Either is fine. The regular FI posters read the curi forum if interested.

> My reason for proposing doing it in group format is to raise and explore more questions. I might for example have two major questions on a particular chapter and someone else two different questions.

If someone else has any questions, I would expect them to *already have posted those questions* in the past. You can find them in the archives. Their reading of OPAR doesn't need to be time-synchronized with yours. If they read OPAR 2 or 20 years before you, or 2 or 20 years after, neither of you should wait for the other person. And whoever goes second can benefit from what the person who went first already said. (And whoever goes first can benefit from the comments of whoever goes second, if the first person is still alive and interested in ideas.)

Similarly, if someone wanted to read OPAR (and preferred it over all alternative books), in general they already would have, rather than doing it right now to match your schedule. Or if they will read it but haven't yet gotten to it, in general they will get to it at some random time in the future which doesn't match when you read it. While there are some upsides to synchronized reading, they generally aren't significant enough to get first-handed people to make major scheduling changes (e.g. read a book a year or more earlier or later).

Also, the pace people read books at varies. If I were going to reread OPAR right now, I might finish the whole book in a week, while you take 12 weeks. I read *Time Will Run Back* by Hazlitt yesterday, all in one day. My personal reading record for one day is 2.5 times the number of words in OPAR.

Anyway, think of it like the OPAR book club *already started* in 1994 (when this online discussion community first started with the TCS email list on AOL) and people can contribute more to it at any time. The reading group was opened at that time, available to be discussed. The group for every other book was also opened then (except the books that were published after that like BoI). Then, judging by a quick search, it was in 2011 that people made the first contributions to OPAR book club. Now dozens of contributions have accumulated. It'd be hard to get more with a fresh book club, that starts next week, even if people wanted to join it. And some people are simultaneously available to discuss OPAR and hundreds of other books at any time, and have been for years – you can think of them as members of many book clubs at once because they are prepared to discuss those books (even though they won't start a full rereading right now and try to time it along with you, which they don't actually need to do in order to discuss).

If you post about OPAR and the posts interest people, they may want to read the book (if they haven't) to join the discussion, or they may reread some passages in order to reply better. I think those are better approaches than trying to set up a scheduled reading group.


curi at 10:52 AM on May 15, 2019 | #12393 | reply | quote

#12393 Valid points. Thanks. I'll bring my upcoming questions on OPAR (and other books) to the Open Discussion forum on curi forum.


Nikola at 10:08 PM on May 15, 2019 | #12400 | reply | quote

Here's the first post of Nikola's OPAR reading, so that people can see what came of the reading group discussion above:

http://curi.us/1857-open-thread-objectivism-discussion#c12418


Anonymous at 12:48 PM on May 17, 2019 | #12424 | reply | quote

I tried playing Super Mario Odyssey. I know someone who already had the game and was willing to help me get started using their game.

I hadn't played this kind of game before although I had seen other people play similar games in the past. I had to be shown how to turn on the Switch, what the buttons on the controller were, etc.

I played for about 40 minutes and got through the first level. I beat the first boss by just pressing random buttons until it died. If I play again I might try the first level again and practice some basic things some more, like running and jumping.

I did experience some motion sickness. I was playing on a giant screen. Maybe I'd feel better playing on a smaller screen.

I also felt some pain in my left shoulder in the same spot that I've had trouble with before from other kinds of video games. Maybe that could be helped by holding the controller in a different position or something.


Anne B at 3:38 PM on May 17, 2019 | #12428 | reply | quote

Race in Lake kingdom

I watched this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02sGSuDX_n0

I already got first place without watching any videos. I got 1:21.31 that way.

the video shows a much faster way. it involves lots of cap jumps. it gets 24 seconds.

I had to rewatch part of this video on how to do arial cap jumps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7HZT2lmL04

Then I had to rewatch the first part of the race video. I successfully combined a triple jump (which gives the most height) and a cap jump to get past the first hard part (getting up to a tall cliff).

Then I died and had to restart the race. This time I was able to successfully combine a roll, a long jump, a triple-jump, and a cap jump, in that order, in order to get from the start of the race to the top of the cliff.

Next steps: more of the lake kingdom race


GISTE at 7:56 AM on May 18, 2019 | #12431 | reply | quote

GISTE

#12431

> Then I had to rewatch the first part of the race video. I successfully combined a triple jump (which gives the most height) and a cap jump to get past the first hard part (getting up to a tall cliff).

> Then I died and had to restart the race. This time I was able to successfully combine a roll, a long jump, a triple-jump, and a cap jump, in that order, in order to get from the start of the race to the top of the cliff.

I tried to do this again. I tried about 25 times before I got on the cliff. I tried 10 more times and got on there once.

so then I stopped doing that and tried only to do cap jumps for a while. just over and over again in a circle. I was able to get it right 3 out of 4 times. I did it so much that my hand muscles started hurting. so I took a break.


Race in Lake kingdom - part 2 at 5:31 PM on May 19, 2019 | #12440 | reply | quote

Race in Lake kingdom - part 3

#12440

this time I started by practicing arial cap jumps in a circle. I figured out something about how I press X and Y with my thumb. what I do now is this:

at the height of a jump, throw cappy and hold it (press and hold X). this keeps cappy stationary, ready for Mario to launch off of cappy.

after having thrown cappy, press and hold ZL. this initiates a ground pound. so Mario does a tumble. but before he starts moving downward, after Mario has done his full tumble in the air, press Y, but don't remove thumb from X (so for a moment I'm pressing X and Y). then continue holding on Y as Mario lands on cappy and jumps off of it. I can get another dive out of this by removing my thumb from X and pressing/holding it again and then pressing Y too.

now I'm doing arial cap jumps about 9 out of 10 times.

so then I tried to get back on the cliff (the first part of the race). I did a lot better this time. I'm getting it right 50% of the time. mostly what's stopping me is getting Mario at a certain point by the end of his triple jump. often times I'm either too close to the ledge, so I crash into the cliff during my arial cap jump, or I'm too far from the ledge, so my arial cap jump doesn't get me close enough to the ledge.

I went ahead to the next hard part. I gotta do a triple jump and arial cap jump. this one seems harder than the first one.

Next steps: practice the first 2 hard parts of lake kingdom race


GISTE at 5:03 AM on May 20, 2019 | #12442 | reply | quote

using both cap buttons isn't necessary. try it both ways and see what you prefer (and try to find out what speedrunners do – if they all do it the same way, do that. if they do a variety then you can pick). the cap stays out for a certain amount of time without holding the cap button. if you let go and repress (and then hold) the button during that time, it stays out. you can dive that way using one cap button. that's what i do. you can test how that works on the ground to see when the cap button has to be held for the cap to stay out.

after you do the first cap jump, you can dive without throwing your cap a second time. throwing the cap again, even though you won't jump on it, is helpful if you need to change directions.

also triple jump is only a tiny bit higher than alternatives. in most cases, you can use a different jump to make it easier. try it with every type of jump and compare.


curi at 10:31 AM on May 20, 2019 | #12450 | reply | quote

Race in Lake kingdom - part 4

#12450

I tried the single cap-button way and yeah it's better.

this session I got past the 2nd hard part of the race. I did a triple jump, a cap jump, then threw cappy and dived.

then I tried to get past both hard parts together. I did this 3 times. on the 3rd time I got 57.36 seconds. it should have been more like 24 seconds but I messed up a few times at the 2nd hard part.

Next steps: try to get past both hard parts under ~30 seconds.


GISTE at 5:10 AM on May 21, 2019 | #12455 | reply | quote

Race in Lake kingdom - part 5

#12455

I practiced some cap jumps first. Then I did the full race.

I got 49.74.

Then 34.79.

Then 31.29.

Then 31.95.

There were lots of tries in between where I quit because I messed up so much that I wasn't going to beat my PR.

I think this is good enough to move on to other stuff. I could come back to the race later when I'm better.


GISTE at 4:47 AM on May 22, 2019 | #12472 | reply | quote

Race in Lake kingdom - part 6/7

#12472

last night I was gonna move on to other stuff but when it was time to do Mario again, I wanted to see what I could do in the race.

I did about 30 or 45 minutes of trying. I was a little bit better or roughly the same during the first half of it. I got a new PR of 31.22sec. then I noticed I was getting worse. I felt my hand muscles getting tired. (I think I press on the controllers too hard. Sleepy told me a while ago that I press on the iPad too hard too.)

Today I tried again. I was surprised to find out that on my first try, I got 34.28. On all previous sessions, it took a few tries before I could even complete the race.


GISTE at 3:56 AM on May 23, 2019 | #12483 | reply | quote

Moons in Wooded kingdom moons - part 1

I got these by following a tutorial [1]:

- 6. BACK WAY UP THE MOUNTAIN

- 10. ATOP A TALL TREE

I got these as I noticed them while I was working on the moons above:

- Timer challenge 1

- Glowing in the deep woods

- Exploring for treasure

- Beneath the roots of the moving tree

- Deep woods treasure trap

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/3/16581820/wooded-kingdom-power-moon-locations-names#UaICWP


GISTE at 4:40 AM on May 23, 2019 | #12484 | reply | quote

#12483

Are you going to try to not press so hard?


Anonymous at 5:49 AM on May 23, 2019 | #12485 | reply | quote

Moons in Wooded kingdom - part 2

#12484

Using the same tutorial [1] I got these moons:

- 11. TUCKED AWAY INSIDE A TUNNEL. I couldn’t find this one by the description. I had to lookup a video. And then I had to find a seed to grow the ladder-vine. I had a pretty good idea of where to find it. Done.

- 13. THE NUT ‘ROUND THE CORNER

- 14. CLIMB THE CLIFF TO GET THE NUT

- 15. THE NUT IN THE RED MAZE. I had to watch a video to find out where the red maze is. I also saw some moon shards, so I got all 5 and got a moon for it.

- 16. THE NUT AT THE DEAD END. I had to watch 2 videos (the first didn’t show the general area of where to go).

- 17. CRACKED NUT ON A CRUMBLING TOWER

- 18. THE NUT THAT GREW ON THE TALL FENCE. I had to watch a video for this again to find where to go.

- 19. FIRE IN THE CAVE

- 20. HEY OUT THERE, CAPTAIN TOAD!

- 22. INSIDE THE ROCK IN THE FOREST

- 26. SPINNING-PLATFORMS TREASURE

- 27. MAKE THE SECRET FLOWER FIELD BLOOM

- 28. ROLLING ROCK IN THE DEEP WOODS

These moons I found while getting the ones above:

- Taking Notes: Stretching

- Taking Notes: on top of the wall

- High up on a rock wall

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/3/16581820/wooded-kingdom-power-moon-locations-names#UaICWP


GISTE at 7:58 AM on May 23, 2019 | #12486 | reply | quote

Is it Super Mario Odyssey in particular that you recommend as a guide to problem solving, because of some way it's designed?

Do you have other recommendations? (perhaps an online quick access?)


Anonymous at 3:52 AM on May 24, 2019 | #12491 | reply | quote

#12491 See the blog post paragraph that says "Those are some reasons it's a good game choice."

I don't know any good browser game speedruns if that's what you mean. You can look for yourself to find a speed game which has competition and guides.

You don't say what the problem is. If it's money but you have a PC, then you can get an n64 emulator and play Mario 64, which is great too.


Anonymous at 10:52 AM on May 24, 2019 | #12495 | reply | quote

If you can't finish Mario Odyssey in under 2 hours, the issue is knowledge not physical dexterity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEFaNhe2m-0

Smallant put the left joycon in his right hand, and vice versa, and finished the game in under 2 hours. First try, no getting used to the controls first.


Anonymous at 11:30 AM on May 24, 2019 | #12497 | reply | quote

Trying not to press hard

#12485

> Are you going to try to not press so hard?

Yes

I tried moving around in various ways in the game without any other goal (no trying to get moons or anything else, just moving around). I tried to only pay attention to how hard I'm pressing on the buttons. I noticed that I'm not pressing very hard.

Now I guess I was only pressing hard while I was repeatedly trying to do a series of moves that I'm not accustomed to.


GISTE at 4:00 AM on May 25, 2019 | #12503 | reply | quote

Moons in Wooded kingdom - part 3

Using this tutorial [1] I got these moons:

- 30. PAST THE PECULIAR PIPES

- 32. THE HARD ROCK IN DEEP WOODS

- 33. A TREASURE MADE OF COINS

- 39. FLOODING PIPEWAY

- 40. FLOOD PIPEWAY CEILING SECRET

- 42. NUT HIDDEN IN THE FOG

I got these moons on my own as I was getting the above moons:

- By the babbling brook in the woods

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/3/16581820/wooded-kingdom-power-moon-locations-names#UaICWP


GISTE at 4:40 AM on May 25, 2019 | #12504 | reply | quote

Moons in Wooded kingdom - part 4

Using this tutorial [1] I got these moons:

- 43. FLOWER ROAD RUN

- 44. FLOWER ROAD REACH

- 45. ELEVATOR ESCALATION

- 46. ELEVATOR BLIND SPOT

- 47. WALKING ON CLOUDS

- 48. ABOVE THE CLOUDS

I notice that many of the moons could be gotten along the same path as other ones. I could try looking ahead in the tutorial so see if that’s the case, and then try to get both moons in one shot.

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/3/16581820/wooded-kingdom-power-moon-locations-names#UaICWP


GISTE at 8:23 AM on May 26, 2019 | #12513 | reply | quote

Moons in Wooded kingdom - part 5

Using this tutorial again[1] I got these moons:

49. SECRET PATH TO THE STEAM GARDENS. For this one I used a video. [2]

50. FOUND WITH WOODED KINGDOM ART

51. SWING AROUND SECRET FLOWER FIELD

52. JAMMIN’ IN THE WOODED KINGDOM

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/3/16581820/wooded-kingdom-power-moon-locations-names#szahGZ

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Wx2SzONKM


GISTE at 5:43 AM on May 27, 2019 | #12520 | reply | quote

Moons in Wooded kingdom - part 6

I did two sessions without using a tutorial. Instead I tried exploring near the X’s on the map. I explored near all of the X’s. I only got 3 moons (out of 18) though.

I would have gotten these moons quicker using a tutorial but it was more fun trying to get them on my own.

Now I’m going back to the tutorial[1]. I got these moons:

53. WOODED KINGDOM REGULAR CUP

56. LOST IN THE TALL TREES

59. THE NUT IN THE ROBOT STOREROOM

61. THE NUT UNDER THE OBSERVATION DECK

62. BIRD TRAVELING THE FOREST

64. HOT, HOT, HOT FROM THE CAMPFIRE

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/3/16581820/wooded-kingdom-power-moon-locations-names#szahGZ


GISTE at 6:19 AM on May 29, 2019 | #12559 | reply | quote

Moons in Wooded kingdom - part 7

I used the same tutorial to get these moons [1]:

65. WOODED KINGDOM TIMER CHALLENGE 3

70. I MET AN UPROOT!

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/3/16581820/wooded-kingdom-power-moon-locations-names#szahGZ

I watched a video [2] for the master cup race. I watched the video in full then tried to do the race using the one shortcut that I learned from the video. I completed the race using the shortcut in just 1 try. I got under 41 seconds, but that wasn’t enough to get first place. On my second try, I messed up a bit early on and restarted the race. On my third try, I did everything right and got first place with 36.86 seconds.

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDIVnrZ4nJg


GISTE at 9:14 AM on May 29, 2019 | #12560 | reply | quote

Moons in Wooded kingdom - part 8

I used videos to get the rest of moons from the Wooded kingdom:

71. INVISIBLE ROAD: DANGER!

72. INVISIBLE ROAD: HIDDEN ROOM

73. HERDING SHEEP ABOVE THE FOREST FOG

76. BELOW BREAKDOWN ROAD


GISTE at 4:59 AM on May 30, 2019 | #12565 | reply | quote

Moons in Cloud Kingdom

Only a few moons to get here.

I wanted to get the moons without any help. I got all but 2 of them without help. 1 of them I couldn’t find anywhere, despite the X on the map. It involved paying attention to the controller vibrating in order to know where to ground pound. For the 2nd one, I wanted a picture as a reference to do the picture matching game.

Done.


GISTE at 5:27 AM on May 30, 2019 | #12566 | reply | quote

Moons in Lost kingdom - part 1

I got 6 moons so far without any tutorials/videos.


GISTE at 6:04 AM on May 30, 2019 | #12567 | reply | quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMX0uQpDsYU

This video is about speedrunning a particular level of Doom II. It gives you an idea of how much can be optimized about moving around without even having a jump button.


Anonymous at 3:12 PM on May 30, 2019 | #12570 | reply | quote

Moons in Lost kingdom - part 2

I did 3 more sessions where I tried to get as many moons as I could without help from tutorials/videos. I got 18 moons this way. I spent a lot of time trying to brainstorm ways to reach moons that I couldn't reach without some technique that I'd never used before.

I have 5 moons left to get. 4 of them are not marked on the map with X's. One of them is.

2 of these moons were the regular race and the master cup race.

I had tons of trouble just finishing the race. I died tons of times. I initially got a time of 1:30ish. That got me 2nd place on the regular cup.

I noticed 2 short cuts that require some arial cap jumps. The 1st cap jump saves a few seconds and the 2nd cap jump saves twice as much. So I decided to only do the 2nd short cut (increasing my chances of success vs trying both shortcuts in the same run).

Using only the 2nd short cut, I got a time of 1:00.36. That got me 1st place in the regular cup. 2 runs later I got a time of 59.65, which gave me 1st place in the master cup.


GISTE at 7:11 PM on May 30, 2019 | #12571 | reply | quote

#12571 If you talk to all the characters – especially look near your ship – you will find two who can give you hints to help find moons.


Anonymous at 8:26 PM on May 30, 2019 | #12572 | reply | quote

Moons in Lost kingdom - part 3

I used a tutorial[1] to get help on moon 12 involving a butterfly. The advice wasn't new to me. It said to walk slowly near the butterfly then throw Cappy at it. I did that previously and it didn't work. It worked this time though. Maybe I wasn't going slow enough before.

I also got moons 14, and 22, 23.

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/1/16583738/lost-kingdom-power-moon-locations-find-names#nl0JV0


GISTE at 4:41 AM on May 31, 2019 | #12573 | reply | quote

Moons in Metro kingdom - part 1

I did 2 sessions where I didn't use the help of tutorials/videos. I did use 2 hints from Hint Toad. I got 32 moons this way.

2 of the moons were for getting first place in the regular cup and master cup races. It took only a few tries before completing the race. A couple more tries later I got 36 seconds, which got me 1st place in the regular cup. Then a couple tries later I got 34.18 seconds, which got me 1st place in the master cup. I was using arial cap jumps on my second try of the race. I didn't try it before that because I was only trying to figure out where I'm supposed to go. The arial cap jumps allowed for some short cuts. It was really easy to figure out.

I still have 28 moons left to get, 5 of them are marked with X's on the map.

I have a lead on a moon but it's not enough. I need to find a purse and give it to the mayor. But I don't know where the purse is.

I've spoken to everyone that can be spoken to, as far as I know.

I've gone everywhere on the map, as far as I know.

Next steps: use tutorials/videos to get the rest of the moons in Metro


GISTE at 8:16 AM on May 31, 2019 | #12575 | reply | quote

Moons in the Metro kingdom - part 2

I used tutorials/videos to get these moons:

16. LEFT AT THE CAFE? [1]

17. CAUGHT HOPPING ON A BUILDING! [1]

21. CITY GARDENING: BUILDING PLANTER [1]

26. BENCH FRIENDS [1]

34. CITY HALL LOST & FOUND [2]

35. SEWER TREASURE [3]

On the way I got a moon on my own.

I tried getting moon 30. It requires doing 100 consecutive jump-ropes. I got 47 so far.

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/2/16591640/metro-kingdom-all-power-moon-locations-find-names

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyG-OflXcJU

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-CGBqRI-0M


GISTE at 9:07 AM on May 31, 2019 | #12576 | reply | quote

Moons in the Metro kingdom - part 3

I used tutorials/videos to get these moons:

36. CELEBRATING IN THE STREETS! [1]

41. MOON SHARDS UNDER SIEGE [1]

42. SHARPSHOOTING UNDER SIEGE [2]

49. MOTOR SCOOTER: ESCAPE! [1]

54. BIRD TRAVELING IN THE CITY [1]

57. A REQUEST FROM THE MAYOR [1]

58. JAMMIN’ IN THE METRO KINGDOM [1]

60. FREE PARKING: LEAP OF FAITH [1]

62. HAT-AND-SEEK: IN THE CITY [1]

63. POWERING UP THE POWER PLANT [1]

64. UP ON THE BIG SCREEN [1]

65. DOWN INSIDE THE BIG SCREEN [1]

72. FOUND IN THE PARK! GOOD DOG! [1]

[1] https://www.polygon.com/super-mario-odyssey-guide-walkthrough/2017/11/2/16591640/metro-kingdom-all-power-moon-locations-find-names

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZZlw4DnDc


GISTE at 12:30 PM on May 31, 2019 | #12580 | reply | quote

How do I know when I have "learnt philosophy"?


Anonymous at 8:05 PM on May 31, 2019 | #12581 | reply | quote

Lake race again

I didn't finish getting the moons in Metro kingdom. Instead I wanted to see if I was significantly better for the Lake race.

I noticed that I did a lot better in the Metro and Lost races than compared to previous races and I wanted to see if that would reflect in a much better PR for the Lake race.

I was wrong. I had just as much trouble as the last time I did the Lake race. I did get a new PR but it was not significantly better (only a small fraction of a second improvement).


GISTE at 7:54 AM on June 1, 2019 | #12583 | reply | quote

Moons in Snow kingdom

For this session I didn’t use the help of tutorials/videos. I got 34 moons. I did use 3 hints from the Hint Toad that led to getting moons. There were some more hints from Hint Toad that didn’t help.

On the Koopa Freerunning race, I completed the race on the first try (cuz it’s easy). I got 1st place (regular cup) on my 2nd try with 31.05 seconds. I did arial cap jumps for much of the race. Then on the master cup, I restarted a few times because I noticed that I was 2nd place already. So I did a run just to watch the 1st place guy. I noticed that he used a Cheep Cheep to swim. So I started doing that. It took a few tries and I got 1st place with 26.38 seconds.


GISTE at 9:05 AM on June 1, 2019 | #12584 | reply | quote

More moons in Snow kingdom

I've done many more sessions to get moons in Snow kingdom without tutorials/videos. I got 56 moons so far.

There are a few moons that I know about but haven't gotten yet. I got all the hints from the Hint Toad, but not all of them were useful.

I haven't beaten the master cup race, despite tons of tries.

I haven't tried getting 100 volleys in the volley ball game. I did get 15 volleys to get the first moon of the two moons for playing this game.

I haven't gotten the moon for playing with the dog. I played with him on 4 different occasions, each time playing catch a few times. As I understand it, I'm just supposed to play catch with him a bunch (according to a tutorial I read about the same kinda thing in previous kingdoms).

There is a moon involving hint art. I haven't figured that out yet. The hint art looks like the word "keep" with a moon above it.

I'm going to move on to the next kingdom to get moons on my own before going back to tutorials/videos.


GISTE at 8:22 AM on June 2, 2019 | #12601 | reply | quote

Did you talk with the parrot ?


Anonymous at 8:42 AM on June 2, 2019 | #12602 | reply | quote

Parrot

#12602

yep I talked to the parrot many times. I still need to talk to him again after I get some of the moons. as far as I can see, he won't give new hints until you've gotten some of the moons for the hints he already gave.


GISTE at 3:02 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12607 | reply | quote

Correction

#12601

correction: this post was about the Seaside kingdom.

I think I wrote Snow kingdom partly because I was started playing in that kingdom to get 3 more moons (without tutorials/videos) before starting on the Seaside kingdom.


GISTE at 3:19 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12608 | reply | quote

Moons in Luncheon kingdom

I got 45 moons so far without tutorials/videos. I'm not done trying though.

Regarding the koopa race:

I died tons in the initial runs. I got the hang of it after I stopped trying to jump like the rest of the computer players and instead did lots of arial cap jumps so I could easily clear the gaps between the platforms that we had to cross.

When I completed the race the first time, I got 1st place (regular cup). Apparently I used a shortcut unknowingly. I just went to the location of the beacon in the way that I remembered earlier while exploring a particular area -- and that was a shortcut.

The shortcut was good enough to get me first place in the master cup too (after a few deaths that is).

---

The only remaining moons are 32, 47, 49, 52, and 53.

One of them involves being a mechanic. dunno what's up with that. (***Don't give me the answer.***)

One of them maybe involves diving off of the big pot at the top of the volcano.

One of them involves a secret path to the volcano.

Two of them I have no information about besides their location on the map.

One of those 2 involves hint art (moon 49). It shows some underwater platforms that look like they're from the Seaside kingdom.

And the last one is located right on top of the koopa race icon. There is a door there that leads to a passageway. I’ve explored there 2 times now. I don’t see it.

Also I recall talking to one of the hat characters who said that I should find a man wearing the hat's friend (also a hat). I haven't found him yet. And I don't know if finding this hat character will get me a moon or not. None of the moons I mentioned above seem related to it.


GISTE at 3:34 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12609 | reply | quote

> I got 45 moons so far without tutorials/videos. I'm not done trying though.

It seems like you're improving compared to when you started playing.


Anonymous at 3:53 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12610 | reply | quote

Question about OP

> (Mario Odyssey has few downsides. The biggest one is it uses motion controls some. It also takes more work to record videos of console gameplay than Mac or PC gameplay, and you need a Switch.)

why is "uses motion controls some" a downside?


GISTE at 3:55 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12611 | reply | quote

motion controls are hard to control, and generally finicky and annoying. the technology doesn't work well enough and it's much harder to get a consistent result. pressing a button you either press it or you don't. moving a joystick a particular way is harder but manageable (especially with older controllers that have notches for the 8 main angles). motion controls often just don't do what you want very well, e.g. sometimes it thinks you shook the controller when you wanted a spin throw, or vice versa.


curi at 4:04 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12612 | reply | quote

I noticed a methodology change in me

I noticed a methodology change in me since I've been playing this game.

today I was trying to get a particular moon and I kept dying at a particular point along the path. I remember thinking "if I die one more time, I'll move on to something else". but I didn't want to do that again. that's what I did a lot in the beginning of playing this game. I'd give up getting a particular moon to move on to getting other moons, planning to come back it later. But this time (this is not the first, but it is new compared to how I was playing the game initially), instead of quitting and moving on to other moons, I decided, "I'll keep trying until I get it.. no giving up." I thought that doing it now is better than doing it later because right now my memory of the pathway to the particular moon is best (later I'll forget some stuff). (I also thought that I should practice repeatedly trying instead of giving up.) And then 1 more try later, I got the moon. So if I had done in this case what I was doing before, I wouldn't have gotten the moon (even though just 1 more try would have gotten it).


GISTE at 4:09 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12613 | reply | quote

Getting better at the game

#12610

Yes. A lot. See my previous post about one thing I got better at (#12613). btw I wrote that before seeing your message.

One change in me is this. Now when I go to a kingdom to get all the moons, I start by exploring everywhere on the map (while getting some moons that I notice along the way), mainly just to explore the map. I want to have a good idea of where everything is, where things are in relation to other things, how I can move from one points of the map to another. Before, I did not explore much.

So I do the exploration phase and then get all the moons I can, save a few that I have no leads on, before doing the koopa races. I've noticed that the races are easier when I already have a very good idea of how to move around the map. An example of this happened while doing the Luncheon race, which I posted about above (#12609). I used a short cut but I didn't know it was a shortcut. It was just the way I knew how to go because of my earlier exploration of the map.


GISTE at 4:24 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12614 | reply | quote

Getting better

#12613

regarding my ability to control the Mario character...

I'm much better.

The races are getting easier.

I almost never fail doing arial cap jumps now and I had tons of trouble with it before. I did many sessions focussed on practicing arial cap jumps.

I can now do wall jumps followed by arial cap jumps, allowing me to get on top of a plateau. (Later I'll need to precede the wall jump with an arial cap jump to cross a big distance.)


GISTE at 5:07 PM on June 2, 2019 | #12616 | reply | quote

Getting more moons without tutorials/videos

#12609

I got 3 more moons in the luncheon kingdom, leaving only 2 to get: the secret path to the volcano (moon 47) and the hint art (49).

I went to the Ruined kingdom and got a few moons, leaving 3 left to get. I have no more leads. I got all the hints from the Hint Toad. There is no parrot like in the other kingdoms.

I went to the Bowser kingdom. I've gotten a bunch of moons so far. I also got a moon for the Seaside kingdom. I found a painting portal that took me to that kingdom. I got moon 49, secret to seaside kingdom.


GISTE at 12:17 PM on June 3, 2019 | #12620 | reply | quote

Race in Bowser kingdom

I'm done with the exploration phase and almost done with getting all the moons in this kingdom. So it was time for the race.

I didn't die at all, even though there were plenty of opportunities to die. On my first run I just followed the other characters to see where they went. On my second run, I got 2nd place. On my 3rd run, I got 1st place for the regular cup. On my 4th run, I got 1st place for the master cup.

I had less trouble with this race than any other race so far.

I used a lot of arial cap jumps. Many parts of the race involved going down from above while also requiring that you cover some horizontal distance too. These were ideal situations for arial cap jumps.

PS. 7 moons left to get in this kingdom.


GISTE at 4:15 PM on June 3, 2019 | #12621 | reply | quote

Got more moons in Bowser and Moon kingdoms

I got 5 more moons and I only have 2 moons left to get. The secret path to bowser's castle (moon 43) and the hint art one (moon 45).

I went to the Moon kingdom and got all but 4 moons.

One is the dog again.

One is hint art.

One involving flying to a chest. I explored the area a bunch. There are 2 flying characters I could take control of. AFAIK I explored everywhere using those 2 characters. I haven't seen a chest in those areas.

And there's one that I have no hints about besides its location on the map. It's in the same area as the above mentioned moon.

PS. The Moon kingdom race was easy.


GISTE at 7:33 AM on June 4, 2019 | #12648 | reply | quote

Getting the hint art moons

I went back to metro kingdom and got a few more moons. I used the parrot to get some hints. I only have 2 left to get. one is for jump-roping 100 times and one is for the hint art.

The hint art shows an area in the lake kingdom. So I went there and explored a bit. I noticed that the hint art shows 2 floors and a few pillars in a circle on the top floor. So I went searching for areas like that. It was easy to find.

I moved on to the Snow kingdom to get the hint art moon there. I got 2 more moons there, using the parrot's hints. The hint art shows the lost kingdom, so I went there. I found it.

I moved on to the Seaside kingdom. Hmm. That's the one with the word keep and a purple moon above it. I don't get it what it's saying.

To be continued...


GISTE at 9:25 AM on June 4, 2019 | #12650 | reply | quote

I don't have 100 volleyball and I'm missing several hint art. Offhand I don't recall being missing anything else. I didn't figure out some of the hint art clues, although I haven't tried very much.


curi at 10:29 AM on June 4, 2019 | #12652 | reply | quote

Seaside race, master cup

I went back to the seaside race because I didn't get 1st place in the master cup.

I practiced doing parts of the race that I was having trouble with.

for example, I often crashed at the end of using flowers. so instead of doing the race I practiced picking up flowers and stopping where I wanted to stop. I figured out that I can do a jump and then immediately ground pound.

I also varied the exact route I took thru the race.

with these improvements I got a new PR, but not 1st place.

I don't like the first part of the race where I have to repeatedly pressing B for a while to get out of the water. after a few races my hand gets tired and I can't do the race anymore.

the rest of the game doesn't require repeatedly pressing the same button much so I don't think it's important.


GISTE at 9:29 AM on June 8, 2019 | #12687 | reply | quote

#12687

1) if it's like mario 64, you need to press swim button with the correct timing, using a rhythm, not as fast as possible.

2) https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/200275-super-mario-odyssey/75964857


Anonymous at 10:08 AM on June 8, 2019 | #12688 | reply | quote

#12688

#12688

re 1), in this case it's not about rhythm. you just need to do it fast enough to maintain full speed. any faster pressing won't make you go faster.

re 2), that's about swimming horizontally rather than vertically (which is what I was talking about in the first part of the seaside race). about swimming horizontally, I had seen (either in an article or a video) that you should press ZL and Y at the same time to get a horizontal boost. that doesn't work well for me. I instead press ZL (which starts a ground pound), then hit Y (which boosts me forward). and you have to wait until the boost is completely done before trying ZL again, otherwise something else happens.


GISTE at 10:22 AM on June 8, 2019 | #12691 | reply | quote

#12687

I watched a world record video on the seaside koopa race. I saw 2 short cuts. the 1st shortcut involved getting a Cheep Cheep, which got rid of the necessity to repeatedly press Y to swim up with the regular Mario character. the 2nd shortcut involved using the springy things to launch me up the plateau where the finish line is. I got around 43 seconds, which is much shorter than what's needed for 1st place master cup.


GISTE at 11:10 AM on June 9, 2019 | #12697 | reply | quote

#12697

I told Sleepy about the world record video I watched and the short cuts it gave. she wanted to see it. I showed her and got 36 second.

then we decided to keep trying to improve our PRs on the race. she'd keep trying until she beat my PR, then I'd keep trying till I beat hers, and so on.

she got 31 seconds after a couple tries.

then I got 28.56 after a bunch of tries (I restarted a lot cuz it's hard to get the Cheep Cheep cuz of the weird camera angle.)

the world record I watched (which could be an old world record) got 22.59 sec.


GISTE at 11:33 AM on June 9, 2019 | #12698 | reply | quote

optimizing seaside race

#12697

I watched a previous WR video [1] and noticed another short cut. It seems the player starts out the race turning left and then throwing out Cappy (by shaking both controllers) to get the Cheep Cheep (before I was just swimming to the cheep cheep to get closer and then throwing out cappy to capture it).

I tried to do this but the Cheep Cheep is too far away. I watched the video again and noticed that the camera angle is moving too. So I tried starting out the race by using the left joystick to move 10 degrees to the right of left and using the right joystick to put the camera in the same direction, then throw out cappy. then when cappy is just under the Cheep Cheep, shake the controllers again to grab the Cheep Cheep.

but when I try this, cappy does not grab the Cheep Cheep. it seems my cappy is not close enough. I'm not sure what's going on. if I try to delay throwing out cappy until I've moved to the left a bit, it seems to take much longer than compared to what I see in the video.

[1] https://twitter.com/HamSam03/status/981775980548075520


GISTE at 7:10 AM on June 10, 2019 | #12708 | reply | quote

#12708

I tried this a bunch more times and finally got it right. Not sure what was different this time and I don't think I could do this consistently at all.

I messed up a bit later in the race but I still got a PR of under 28 seconds. The part I messed up on is where I launch from the springy thing to get on top of the plateau. I'm supposed to do a dive into the finish line rather than touching the plateau first and then moving to the finish line. I touched the plateau because I was too close to it when I launched from the springy thing.


GISTE at 7:17 AM on June 10, 2019 | #12709 | reply | quote

Checking out a any% speed run

I watched the 1st part of the WR any% speedrun [1], through mushroom and cap kingdom.

He does tons of things I don't know how to do (either at all or not well).

The first thing seems to be the spin, then ground pound, then roll.

I've never done it before. I'm able to do this now but it's slow. I do the spin and then ground pound, but it seems I'm doing the ground pound to slow because I end up getting a ton of height during the spin. The WR video shows the ground pound happening before he gets any or much height at all from the spin.

I tried a few more times and I can do it a bit faster now but it still seems way slower than the video. I still get some height from the spin before I do the ground pound.

I also don't seem to be getting a spin to happen fast. (I'm not new to the spin. I've used it some before and I've even tried to optimize my ability to get a spin to happen quickly/consistently.

[1] https://www.speedrun.com/smo/run/y6l7w56y


GISTE at 7:47 AM on June 10, 2019 | #12711 | reply | quote

spin, ground pound, roll

#12711

I can do this a bit better now. Much quicker. I don't get much height after the spin before getting the ground pound to happen. I also get the spin to happen more consistently.


GISTE at 7:55 AM on June 10, 2019 | #12712 | reply | quote

#12712

I practiced the spin-jump-groundpound-roll a bunch, for 2 more sessions.

in the earlier session, I got lucky and did one of these very fast (it looked just like in the WR video). I got like zero height after the spin-jump-groundpound before I was able to get the roll to happen. I call it lucky because most of the time I failed to get it done at all, and for the remaining, I got it done but really slowly (where I get a lot of height from the jump before ground pounding).

in the latest session, I didn't get that lucky but I was more consistent in getting them to happen and on average i got them done quicker.


GISTE at 7:43 AM on June 11, 2019 | #12729 | reply | quote

All five Mario 64 speedrun world records were recently beaten/improved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4UKGbdMJCI


Anonymous at 12:55 PM on June 12, 2019 | #12753 | reply | quote

GISTE, as explained in smallant's movement video, you can spin the joystick during a cutscene when you can't control mario (e.g. during the countdown when a koopa race is about to start). This lets you do a basically instant spark roll at the start of a race (spin before race starts, then jump, groundpound, roll). Without the spin, you can't groundpound until you're higher off the ground.

Not sure if you realized that. But yeah you should practice spinning and then doing the jump+groundpound+roll when there's no cutscene until you get used to it. It's not that hard IMO. If you find it hard, do it slower and correctly. Slow down until you find a speed you can press the buttons correctly at (even if it's too slow for mario to do the right thing). After you're doing the right buttons in the right order, speed up a bit, practice that a bit, speed up again, etc. You should never be screwing up a lot. If you are, that means you're trying to do it in a way that's too hard for you. Just practice it in an easier way (slower) a bit more until you can speed up further. It should be pretty easy to do it fairly fast so Mario is doing the right thing but you do jump into the air a bit. After practicing that a while, you should be able to gradually get the groundpound sooner after the jump. Then you can learn the timing for when to spin the joystick, and how much, during a cutscene like a race countdown.


curi at 1:00 PM on June 12, 2019 | #12754 | reply | quote

#12754

I bet I saw it and didn't register it because it was more advanced than what I was trying to work on.

--

I practiced doing the spin-jump-groundpound-roll slowly. I noticed some things while doing that that I didn't notice when I was trying to go faster.

Now I'm able to do it faster and more consistently. Just now I did 5 of them consecutively with no mistakes and relatively fast.

And I'm able to get the spin to register without actually doing a spin. I do this while I'm rolling from the last spin-jump-groundpound-roll.

PS. my controller broke a bit. the d-stick sometimes does things on it's own. the problem shows up the clearest when I'm using the springy things that stick out of a wall. nothing happens. I don't get launched as expected. so I bought new controllers and I also got the rubber grips for the joy sticks.


GISTE at 10:03 AM on June 19, 2019 | #12807 | reply | quote

practicing spin-jump-groundpound-roll

I noticed a few things and made some changes.

I previously bought the joystick grips. They help. They do slide a little bit sometimes, but it’s much better than without the grips.

I noticed that the joycon controllers move around a bit in my hands, especially when I'm rotating the d-stick to do a spin. so I put on the things that slide on the controllers, making them fit in my hands better. that has helped. I also bought silicone grips for the controllers (haven't come in yet).

I noticed that I sometimes press the Y button too early, resulting in no roll. I only get the spin-jump-groundpound.

I also noticed that after a spin-jump-groundpound-roll, you could (with no delay) repeatedly press Y for boosts (and shake the controller for faster boosts).

and I figured out that adding the repeat Y prevents the failed-roll situation. so if my first Y press was too early, by second one wasn’t.

now i’m doing the whole thing very fast and very consistently.

Here’s what I’m doing exactly:

1. Rotate d-stick 2 rotations, then keep it in the direction I want to go. This starts a spin.

2. Then press B. This starts a jump.

3. Then immediately press and hold ZL. This starts a groundpound.

4. Then immediately and repeatedly press Y. This starts a fast roll.

5. Then shake the right controller. This makes repeated fast rolls.

Step 1 could be done while something else is going on, like a cut scene, or I’m in the middle of a roll.


GISTE at 1:56 PM on June 20, 2019 | #12810 | reply | quote

Have you considered the pro controller?


Anonymous at 2:04 PM on June 20, 2019 | #12811 | reply | quote

To see what speedrunning is like, watch some Games Done Quick archives:

https://www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick/videos


Anonymous at 2:46 PM on June 29, 2019 | #12933 | reply | quote

Procontroller and spin-jump-groundpound-roll

I got the pro controller. It seems to be better for me than the joy con controllers. It's much larger in my hands.

I practiced doing tons of spin-jump-groundpound-rolls. I'm pretty good at it - pretty consistent and I get barely any height from the jump.

I tried doing it from the start of entering a kingdom. I wanted to figure out the timing necessary to do a spin at the start of entering a kingdom without Mario having to rotate twice before the spin. I think I have the timing down now. I wait a couple seconds after the last scene-skip and then I start rotating the d-stick. By the time I have control of Mario I'm already in a spin, and I immediately do the rest of the button sequence to get the jump-groundpound-roll part of it.


GISTE at 7:19 PM on July 10, 2019 | #13021 | reply | quote

GISTE improvement

God damn, GISTE, it's hard to believe how much better your comments about gaming are than the crap you used to post. It's like night and day. I used to skip all your posts, but not any more.


Alisa at 10:11 PM on July 10, 2019 | #13022 | reply | quote

Alisa

Thanks. I noticed the improvement too.

about my game play, comparing say my first month of play with now, it feels like night and day. I had so much trouble trying to do various moves and now it seems easy. I think following curi's ideas in #12754 helped a lot - I can see that it's about how to avoid overreaching as I learn how to do the spin-jump-groundpound-roll. I intend to keep these ideas (and my experience using them to learn the spin-jump-groundpound-roll) in mind as I do other (gaming and non-gaming) things.

about my comments improving, I guess making comments while overreaching vs making comments while avoiding overreaching is what made the night-and-day difference that you noticed.


GISTE at 8:13 AM on July 11, 2019 | #13025 | reply | quote

#13025 Makes sense re: overreaching vs not overreaching. Interesting that you notice the difference too.


Alisa at 10:21 AM on July 11, 2019 | #13026 | reply | quote

Releasing a roll

I watched the early part of WR speed run again so I can practice the parts after the initial instant spark roll (aka spin-jump-groundpound-roll).

https://www.speedrun.com/smo/run/y6l7w56y

I tried doing the part where you roll for a while and then jump on top of the steps and onto the bridge's railing.

I tried 3 times so far and I keep making the same mistake. I end up doing a long jump and crash into the stairs instead of doing a regular jump onto the stairs.

I think he’s doing a roll cancel and I’m not.

So I went to smallant’s movement video again and skipped to the “Releasing a roll” part:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7HZT2lmL04&t=433s

He says you just release the Z buttons to end the roll.

So I tried it but I’m still getting a long jump out of it. So I’m rolling, which means ZL is held while repeatedly pressing Y. And then I release ZL (which should stop the roll) and then I press B to jump. And I’m expecting a regular jump but instead I get a long jump like before.

Ok I think I figured it out. I have to release ZL and wait until Mario stops rolling, then it’s ok to press Y to jump. That produces a regular jump.


GISTE at 9:55 AM on July 12, 2019 | #13045 | reply | quote

Rolling in a relatively straight line

continuing from #13045

Now I have to deal with another problem. I'm not rolling relatively straight like in the WR video. I'm heavily veering right because of the hills.

I rewatched the video and I notice that he's going directly in-between the hills and then after the last hill he veers left, making a straight line from that point to the where he lands on the railing.

Ok after a few tries I'm now able to go straight between the hills and then veer left just enough after the last hill.

Next I need to work on the part where I jump on the stairs and land on the railing.


GISTE at 10:08 AM on July 12, 2019 | #13046 | reply | quote

Watch smallant's tutorial videos and learn his *beginner* speedrun route instead of copying stuff from the world record video. Try to focus your learning on the stuff needed to complete a beginner speedrun and then improve your time with that route (IIRC someone said a top player could get a 66min time using that route, so it's like 10% slower than the WR route, while leaving out all the hardest stuff).


curi at 11:28 AM on July 12, 2019 | #13047 | reply | quote

#13047

oh great I was thinking I should find that sorta thing (not the fastest route, but a pretty fast route, and considerably easier than the fastest route). I thought to ask about it when I'm ready to start learning speed running, and then I forgot all about it.

I found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg1ybu2aAwc


GISTE at 11:33 AM on July 12, 2019 | #13048 | reply | quote

#13048 Do not watch that. That is the wrong video. Look in the description of that video. It links to the correct videos to watch. But scroll up to the very top of this page. There is one link in the blog post. Click that link. That is the playlist you want.


Anonymous at 12:02 PM on July 12, 2019 | #13049 | reply | quote

so the beginner speed run (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIr3hPpGjm4&list=PLiinoyifvFb64od8RyqPFmVqDrFwkgaa0&index=3&t=0s) skips the part where you land on the bridge's railing. that's a lot easier.

I watched up to the point where Mario walks through the door. it seems easy.

so I tried it. I didn't go in a straight enough line while rolling through the hills and then I didn't get a triple jump on the stairs. I tried again 2 more times and I'm getting similar results.

on one of my tries, I noticed that as I was coming down from my 2nd jump, I was touching the vertical part of the stair. and then on my 3rd jump, it registered as just a regular jump instead of the much higher jump that comes from a triple jump. I guess touching the stairs on the way down caused that.

ok on my next try I got the triple jump on the stairs right. I continued. I messed up by crashing into a little light fixture sticking out of the ground. I rewatched the video and I notice that he stays right while crossing the bridge and he keeps right so that he avoids the light fixture.

On my next try I avoided the light fixture and I continued towards the door. I messed up right before getting to the door. there's a little plateau that I need to get on before getting to the door. I crashed into it. this is because I did a long jump instead of a regular jump. I failed to do what I learned before (#13045) about ending a roll before trying to do a regular jump (otherwise you get a long jump).

So I returned to the middle of the bridge leading to the door and I practiced ending a roll and jumping onto the little plateau. I also added the groundpound-dive after the jump like in the video.

i tried doing the whole thing from the start of cap kingdom. I messed up on the triple jump right before getting to the 2nd bridge. So I watched that part of the video again.

i’m going to practice from the end of the first bridge to start of the 2nd bridge. There are a few things in the video I’m not doing.


GISTE at 2:00 PM on July 15, 2019 | #13103 | reply | quote

Check the cap kingdom time in the world record. Add 20%. See if you can get that time. If not, don't call it easy 😈

Triple jumping off stairs and railings works. You may have timed your jump late. However, if you slid against a wall (e.g. so that wall jumping is possible) that probably prevents triple jumping.


Anonymous at 2:04 PM on July 15, 2019 | #13104 | reply | quote

speed running Cap kingdom up to first bridge

I practiced from the end of the first bridge to the door. I successfully did a triple jump and a groundpound-dive to cross the stairs, getting me to the start of the 2nd bridge. and then I messed up ta the little plateau just before the door by failing to end the roll.

I watched the beginning of the video again [1] to see if I’m missing anything. I notice that as he’s approaching the stairs in front of the first bridge, he does his first 2 jumps (of the triple jump) while still on the ground. Then he does his third jump from the first stair. Then he does a dive. So I want to practice that.

Failed on the first try. I started the process (of ending the roll and starting the triple jump) too late.

Failed on the second try. I think I started the process earlier but my 3rd jump wasn’t a triple jump. I think I waited too long after the 2nd jump before pressing the jump button again. So I’m guessing I started the process too early. If I had started it a bit later, I wouldn’t have needed to wait after the 2nd jump to do the 3rd jump.

Failed on the 3rd try. I released ZL in order to end the roll, but I pressed jump before the roll actually ended.

Failed on the 4th try. This was due to not being in the right place after passing the hills. I had veered to the right a bunch so I wasn’t in a position to land on the first stair.

Failed on the 5th try. I didn’t end my roll and got a long jump instead of starting a triple jump. I didn’t end up crashing into the stairs though, so I continued. I screwed up at the stairs to the 2nd bridge. It’s not clear in my mind what I’m supposed to do there. I think should avoid doing this part until I’m better at the stuff before it.

Failed on the 6th, 7th, and 8th tries in the same way. As I launched from the spark roll, I wasn’t going straight towards the bridge. I was like 30 degrees left or right of direction I wanted to go.

Failed on the 9th try. My 2nd jump landed on the stairs instead of the ground before the stairs. It seemed just as fast though.

I rewatched the video to see if I could figure out exactly where he’s end the roll before starting a triple jump. I see that he stops roll-boosting just slightly before he finishes coming off the last hill.

Failed on the 10th try. I failed to end the roll and got a long jump instead of a starting a triple jump.

AHAH! I finally got it right on my 11th try.

On my 12th try, I did all the right stuff except for that I veered left and then right as I was doing the triple jump.

On my 13th try, I failed to end the roll and got a long jump again.

On my 14th try, something happened that I’ve never seen before. As I was coming off of the last hill, I released ZL to end the roll but then I veered right like 45%. I guess I was going too slow. I think if I was going faster then I wouldn’t have veered so much.

On my 15th try, my triple jump failed. So my 3rd jump was just a regular jump. I think I was sliding on a wall which cancels the triple jump.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIr3hPpGjm4&list=PLiinoyifvFb64od8RyqPFmVqDrFwkgaa0&index=3&t=0s


GISTE at 10:10 AM on July 16, 2019 | #13108 | reply | quote

speed running Cap kingdom up to first bridge - session 2

i want to practice upto the first bridge. the last part of it is a triple jump on the stairs and then a dive on to the bridge.

1st try: failed. i got a long jump again instead of ending the roll and doing a regular jump (as part of a triple jump).

2nd try: failed. i did the 1st regular jump fine, but then i think i touched the side of the stair which prevented the triple jump.

3rd try: success!

4th try: failed. I ended the roll too early. so when landing from my 2nd jump, i landed on the ground instead of the stairs.

5th try: success!

6th try: failed. I was way too far left when crossing the hills area. that made me veer right as i came off the last hill. so i wasn’t in a position to jump onto the stairs.

7th try: failed. i ended the roll too early before trying to do the triple jump.

8th try: success!

9th try: success!

10th try: success!

11th try: failed. veered too far left early on.

12th try: failed. ended roll too early.

13th try: failed. veered too far left early on.

14th try: almost a success. something went wrong that i haven’t done before. my 3rd jump was a successful triple jump but when i did the dive, i was aiming too far left with the d-stick, resulting in crashing into the edge of the bridge instead of onto the bridge.

15th try: failed. i think i ended the roll at the right time but then I didn’t start early enough with the first jump (of the triple jump).

16th try: failed. released ZL but pressed jump button too early resulting in a long jump.

17th try: success, sort of. i did everything right except for that i was not on the same stair as in the video[1] when launching for the 3rd jump. i call it a success because my dive still got me onto the bridge.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIr3hPpGjm4&list=PLiinoyifvFb64od8RyqPFmVqDrFwkgaa0&index=3&t=0s

PS. I didn't watch the video at all during this session. I knew what mistakes I made (deviations from the video) from memory.


GISTE at 6:10 AM on July 17, 2019 | #13111 | reply | quote

speed running Cap kingdom up to first bridge - session 3

i want to practice upto the first bridge again. the last part of it is a triple jump on the stairs and then a dive on to the bridge.

1st try: success!

2nd try: failed. i’m not exactly sure what went wrong. I think I started the triple jump too late.

3rd try: failed, but it seemed as fast as the video[1] or close to it. I failed to end the roll and got a long jump instead of a regular jump. But I continued and was able to do some jumps on the stairs and a dive to get on the bridge.

4th try: failed. As I was landed from my 2nd jump, I was on the edge of the stair rather than on it.

5th try: failed. I veered right at the end of the last hill resulting in not being in position to jump onto the stairs.

6th try: failed. when I did the dive, I crashed into the bridge’s railing instead of landing on the bridge. I was going too far to the left.

7th try: failed. I started the triple jump too late. as I came down from the 2nd jump, I’m supposed to land on the ground in front of the first stair but instead I landed on the edge of the stair.

8th try: failed. I noticed that I veered right too much resulting in not being in position to jump onto the stairs.

9th try: success! (Although I think my time wouldn’t have been great because I veered left and then right as I was doing the triple jump.)

10th try: failed. I veered right too much at the end of the last hill. I think I wasn’t going fast enough. I guess it’s because I did not do enough roll-boosts resulting in losing too much speed/momentum.

11th try: failed. Not sure what went wrong. I don’t have a clear picture of what happened.

12th try: success!

13th try: success! (During this try I noticed that I intentionally did one last roll-boost as I was coming down from the last hill for the purpose of maintaining momentum and veering less to the right.)

14th try: failed. I veered in one direction and then the other as I was crossing the hills. That resulted in trying to correct my trajectory as I was starting the triple jump. My correction was not good and I ended up going too far to the left instead of landing on the bridge from the dive.

15th try: failed. as I was coming down from my 2nd jump onto the stairs, I slid on a stair, resulting in cancelling the triple jump sequence.

16th try: failed. I slid on the side of a stair again, resulting in cancelling the triple jump sequence.

17th try: failed. i did the triple jump too early. as I was coming down from my 2nd jump, I landed on the ground instead of the 1st stair.

18th try: failed. I failed to end the roll before jumping, resulting in a long jump instead of starting the triple jump sequence.

19th try: success!

20th try: success!

21st try: failed. I veered too far to the right after the last hill resulting in not being in position to jump onto the stairs.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIr3hPpGjm4&list=PLiinoyifvFb64od8RyqPFmVqDrFwkgaa0&index=3&t=0s

PS. I didn't watch the video at all during this session. I knew what mistakes I made (deviations from the video) from memory.


GISTE at 8:09 AM on July 18, 2019 | #13119 | reply | quote

#13119 It's good to try getting things right, in detail. But you may also be being overly perfectionist. Keep in mind that the full speedrun is an hour. A big part of speedrunning is *recovering from errors*. Some of your errors seem like things you could recover from with only a few seconds of time loss. To get far in the speedrun, you need to fix lots of errors instead of starting over.

Similarly, maybe you should triple jump from a little before the stairs so it's easier than landing on a specific stair. Do you really need a triple jump at that exact spot? Does it make even a second of difference? I don't think this is a scenario where you need maximum height to get up to something.


curi at 11:46 AM on July 18, 2019 | #13121 | reply | quote

#13121

Yes. Btw I made some errors that I thought I recovered from. Here are examples:

#13108

> Failed on the 9th try. My 2nd jump landed on the stairs instead of the ground before the stairs. It seemed just as fast though.

To clarify, the last step is to dive onto the bridge. I was able to do that despite not exactly following everything I thought the video was doing. And I said that "it seemed just a fast".

> On my 12th try, I did all the right stuff except for that I veered left and then right as I was doing the triple jump.

So I did all the moves, including the dive onto the bridge. I just lost a bit of time due to veering left and right a bit.

#13111

> 17th try: success, sort of. i did everything right except for that i was not on the same stair as in the video[1] when launching for the 3rd jump. i call it a success because my dive still got me onto the bridge.

#13119

> 3rd try: failed, but it seemed as fast as the video[1] or close to it. I failed to end the roll and got a long jump instead of a regular jump. But I continued and was able to do some jumps on the stairs and a dive to get on the bridge.

> 9th try: success! (Although I think my time wouldn’t have been great because I veered left and then right as I was doing the triple jump.)

Here's an example of a case where I knew I deviated from the video but I continued and tried to correct the problem but failed to correct it.

> 14th try: failed. I veered in one direction and then the other as I was crossing the hills. That resulted in trying to correct my trajectory as I was starting the triple jump. My correction was not good and I ended up going too far to the left instead of landing on the bridge from the dive.

Re your second paragraph, I think starting the triple jump early (such that my 3rd jump is from the ground instead of from the 1st stair), results in doing a dive that doesn't get me to the bridge. I'll try it tomorrow to make sure.


GISTE at 2:06 PM on July 18, 2019 | #13122 | reply | quote

> Yes. Btw I made some errors that I thought I recovered from.

Yes. That's good. There were cases where it looked like maybe you weren't doing that, e.g.:

> 8th try: failed. I noticed that I veered right too much resulting in not being in position to jump onto the stairs.

You could still find a way to keep going and get up the stairs, even if you didn't use the planned triple jump. Your mistake probably only lost like 3 seconds.

> Re your second paragraph, I think starting the triple jump early (such that my 3rd jump is from the ground instead of from the 1st stair), results in doing a dive that doesn't get me to the bridge. I'll try it tomorrow to make sure.

You could throw your cap, dive, and jump off the cap if you need more airtime to clear something. Cap jumping is generally easier than trying to jump off small, exact spots on the ground like a specific step. It lets you skip more terrain and simplify things (only have to interact with the ground in fewer places). And it won't be much slower.


Anonymous at 9:05 PM on July 18, 2019 | #13127 | reply | quote

#13127

> You could still find a way to keep going and get up the stairs, even if you didn't use the planned triple jump. Your mistake probably only lost like 3 seconds.

Hmm. I thought losing 3 seconds is too much to lose. I guess I've set the standard too high (at least for now).

> You could throw your cap, dive, and jump off the cap if you need more airtime to clear something. Cap jumping is generally easier than trying to jump off small, exact spots on the ground like a specific step. It lets you skip more terrain and simplify things (only have to interact with the ground in fewer places). And it won't be much slower.

Yes. I find cap jumps much easier to use in order clear ground obstacles like stairs than other ways. I found it very difficult to land on the stairs the way the smallant video shows.

I'm going to try your way.


GISTE at 5:00 AM on July 19, 2019 | #13128 | reply | quote

speed running from start of Cap kingdom to the 1st door

Going forward, I'm not going to count a run as a failure unless I crash or otherwise do something that slows me down a lot.

For this session I'll practice from the start of cap kingdom, crossing the 2 bridges, and entering the first door.

It took me like 10 tries before I could do it.

As per #13127 I decided to use a cap jump and dive instead of trying to land on the stairs. I noticed that I have to be pretty close to the first stair before jumping, otherwise my cap jump and dive doesn't get me to the bridge.

For a few of the tries, I crashed into the 1st bridge's railing because I didn't turn left enough as I was rolling. I need to get better at turning while rolling.

For most of my tries, I made lots of mistakes (deviations from what I intended to do) that I recovered from.

Total successes: 9

Re crashing into a wall/railing while rolling, I noticed that hitting the wall/railing at 45 degrees causes a crash instead of causing me to change direction. I need to hit it at less than 45 degrees, but I'm not sure how much less.


GISTE at 5:44 AM on July 19, 2019 | #13129 | reply | quote

You can keep going after crashing into a wall, IMO.


Anonymous at 10:33 AM on July 19, 2019 | #13130 | reply | quote

Rethinking my whole process of learning speedrunning

#13130

I think I should rethink my whole process.

How do I decide what constitutes a failure?

In the case of my current situation where I'm learning how to speedrun Mario by trying to somewhat follow the smallant beginner speed run videos, I'd say a failure involves not knowing where to go next at a particular point in the speed run. for example, not remembering which moons are the easiest to get in order to move on to the next kingdom, or not remembering which moon to get before some other moon. The goal (for this part of my learning of speed running) should be to learn the overall beginner speed run path so that I could do a speed run without needing to rewatch the videos.

When I reach such a failure, what I think I should do is: stop playing, check the video, record what I should be doing next in an ordered list, post about it here, then continue with the speed run. Recording these things in an ordered list and talking about them here will help me figure out what I’m doing wrong and what to do instead and it’ll help me remember these things.

After I'm able to do a speed run of the whole game without having to check the videos or my ordered list, then I should start recording my times. From this point going forward, I’ll be measuring my progress by checking to see that my times are getting shorter with each speed run.

At this point of my learning-speedrunning project I could start optimizing smaller things. For example, let’s say that I keep falling off a ledge and dying at a particular point of the speed run path. For each of these cases I could rewatch a smallant video to see what he’s doing differently. Then I can choose a small section of the speed run that includes this point and optimize my skills for it. And I’ll discuss it here to have others (and myself) check my thinking. Then when I judge that I’m pretty consistently doing better at said point of the speed run path, I can move on with the rest of the speed run. Then I’ll repeat this cycle indefinitely until my best speed run time for the whole game is good enough. I guess that would be when I don’t have any more philosophy to learn (when I have no more leads and nobody else has any leads for me either).


GISTE at 4:48 AM on July 20, 2019 | #13132 | reply | quote

> After I'm able to do a speed run of the whole game without having to check the videos or my ordered list, then I should start recording my times. From this point going forward, I’ll be measuring my progress by checking to see that my times are getting shorter with each speed run.

That's too much. Try learning maybe 3 zones and then doing a few runs of those with a timer and see how you improve and get faster. Also, you'll remember those zones better if you've gone back over them a few times with timed runs. And you get to do real runs sooner and see what they are like more.

This will give you a better idea of what mistakes are important and how important they are. You'll start seeing things like "I can still get a new best time if I keep going" vs "I'm now too far behind to improve my time, that mistake cost me big". (Don't give up just because you can't get a new best time. Practice is still good. And trying to pretty consistently get near your time is good too.)

And yeah keeping track of where you're losing time is good. Once you start doing runs, figure out your biggest problems and work on improving those. It's common for runners to do some focused practice (go to a specific area to practice a specific thing) at the start of their session, then do runs after. Then the next day, they practice some errors from yesterday's runs before doing new runs.


Anonymous at 12:30 PM on July 20, 2019 | #13137 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - learning the path

I watched the full smallant video on the beginner speed run for cap and cascade kingdoms.[1] Then I tried to do it. I had to stop a few times to rewatch the video because I didn't know what to do. Here's what I learned:

- I didn't know how to get up to the plateau where the dinosaur is. I had a vague idea of what to do but I couldn't get up there. I learned that I had to do a triple jump where the first jump was on a surface just below the wide area in front of the plateau. then the 2nd and 3rd jumps are on the wide area in front of the plateau. Then I do a cap jump and dive to the plateau.

- After beating the cascade boss, I knew I had to go left but I forgot what to do after that. I learned that I'm supposed to get the moon on the plateau and that I had to do a triple jump and then a cap jump and dive onto the plateau.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIr3hPpGjm4&list=PLiinoyifvFb64od8RyqPFmVqDrFwkgaa0&index=3&t=0s


GISTE at 2:28 AM on July 25, 2019 | #13140 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #1 9:17

On my first timed run of the cap and cascade kingdoms I got 9:17. I ended the timer at the moment that the screen switched to the kingdom choosing screen.

There were 3 things that I lost a lot of time on:

- beating the cap kingdom boss.

- getting up to the plateau where the dinosaur is. I tried 5 times before I was able to do it.

- beating the cascade kingdom boss.


GISTE at 5:15 AM on July 25, 2019 | #13142 | reply | quote

Comparing my time to the best

the current best any% speed run made it to the point I mentioned #13142 in under 5:34 [1]. So I'm doing better than half his time. His time for the whole game is 59:14 so I think I could easily get less than 2 hours after learning the whole path (where I don't need to rewatch a video to know the path).

[1] https://www.speedrun.com/smo/run/z0156oey

I'm going to spend some time optimizing each of the 3 things I mentioned in #13142 before I continue to the other kingdoms.


GISTE at 5:31 AM on July 25, 2019 | #13143 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #2

So I rewatched the boss fights and noticed new things. Then I did an untimed run. Then a timed run. Here's what I noticed.

- for the cap kingdom boss, I noticed that after the first hit on the boss, smallant jumps onto 1 of the 3 green hats, ending the 3 hat sequence practically before it starts. When I tried it, I must have jumped on the wrong hat because the hat sequence did not end. It took a while before I could stop the hat and jump on it.

- re getting onto the plateau to get the dinosaur, it still took me like 4 times to get it done (both on the untimed run and the timed run).

- for the cascade kingdom boss: on my untimed run I tried to follow smallant's example. I did it a bit faster but no where as fast as smallant. on my timed run I died. that lost a lot of time.

I ended the run instead of continuing.


GISTE at 7:48 AM on July 25, 2019 | #13145 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #3 8:23

I got 8:23. That's almost a 10% improvement on my last (successful) timed run.

Here are my notes:

- re cap kingdom boss. I didn't do any better than last time. I still failed to jump on the correct green hat.

- re getting on the plateau to get the dinosaur, it took only 2 tries to get up there as opposed to about 4 on all previous runs.

- re the "dino skip", I tried like 5 times before getting the jump from the trampoline. on my first timed run, I got it in 2 tries. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I guess the left foot of the Dino needs to touch the trampoline and I guess that that didn't happen on my first 4 tries. it seems like a very hard thing to get right.

- re cascade kingdom boss. I'm doing it so slow compared to the smallant beginner video. I intentionally tried not to do what smallant did so that I don't die. what he does is too risky for me.

I think I'm going to move on to the rest of the speed run.


GISTE at 2:48 AM on July 26, 2019 | #13152 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #4

I tried to do a timed run again. I died at the 2nd boss and ended the run.

Here are my notes:

- re cap kingdom boss. sorta the same as last time. I did not jump on the correct green hat (actually I missed all of the hats when I tried to jump on one of them).

- re getting on the plateau to get the Dino. it took only one try. previous runs took 4 to 5 tries.

- re the "Dino skip". it worked on the first try. previous runs took 2 to 5 tries.

- re the cascade kingdom boss. I wasn't trying to do anything advanced, but I did so inadvertently. Part of the problem was that I forgot what things caused me to die in previous runs. What I should do is let the Chain Chomp pass me (instead of trying to take control of him before he rushes me like smallant does), and then take control of him. I need to be in position after he passes me so that my cap throw can reach him.

I'm going to do this again part of the run instead of moving forward with the rest.


GISTE at 6:26 AM on July 27, 2019 | #13156 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #5 7:42

I got 7:42 this time. That's an 8% improve over my last successful timed run.

Here are my notes:

- re cap kingdom boss. same thing. I don't know how to jump on the right hat to end the 3 hat sequence practically before it starts. I maybe try to optimize this later by looking up details on specifically this boss.

- re getting on the plateau to get the Dino. it took only one try again. I think I licked it. what I've been doing different than before is making sure to stop and fully rotate the Dino so I'm facing directly at the trampoline before starting to move towards it.

- re the cascade kingdom boss. easy peasy since I avoided doing smallant's advanced move.

- I made lots of mistakes that I did not make on all previous runs. I expect that as I do more runs I'll avoid these mistakes and get a much better time.

I kinda wanna keep doing this part of the run instead of continuing to the rest of the kingdoms. I want to see how close I can get to 5:34 (the WR time upto the point where the kingdom switcher screen comes up).


GISTE at 6:44 AM on July 27, 2019 | #13157 | reply | quote

Mistake in my last comment

#13157

this part is wrong:

> - re getting on the plateau to get the Dino. it took only one try again. I think I licked it. what I've been doing different than before is making sure to stop and fully rotate the Dino so I'm facing directly at the trampoline before starting to move towards it.

I meant this instead:

- re getting on the plateau. it took just one try.

- re the "Dino skip". it took only one try again. I think I licked it. what I've been doing different than before is making sure to stop and fully rotate the Dino so I'm facing directly at the trampoline before starting to move towards it.


GISTE at 6:46 AM on July 27, 2019 | #13158 | reply | quote

practicing problematic parts up to end of Cascade kingdom

I practiced the problematic parts up to the end of Cascade kingdom. Here are my notes:

- re cap kingdom boss. I succeeded at jumping on the main green hat of the 3 hats, resulting in ending the 3-hat sequence practically before it started. this saved a lot of time.

- re getting up to the plateau. I messed up a few times instead of getting it right the first time. I think I just need more practice.

- re "Dino skip". I had to circle around like 3 times before getting the jump from the trampoline. I'm not sure what I did different than before.


GISTE at 6:56 AM on July 28, 2019 | #13162 | reply | quote

more practice up to end of Cascade kingdom

- re cap kingdom boss. I timed my jump wrong resulting in the 3-hat sequence taking a bunch of time.

- re getting up to the plateau to get the Dino. It took a few tries. I failed to get a triple jump and I know why now. when I jump from the lower surface that is flush with the top of the odyssey, and then land onto the higher surface (which is when I'm supposed to do the 2nd jump of the triple jump), I got too much forward movement when landing, resulting in ending the triple jump possibility.

- re "Dino skip". took a few tries. it's time to watch a video about this. so I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGhZkBPNSKg. I tried it a few times. Seems to work very consistently. That's going to save a bunch of time.

- re cascade kingdom boss. I figured out how to get the boss to not chase me while I have control of the Chain Chomp. That saves some time. I still don't use smallant's advance move of taking control of the Chain Chomp before it rushes me.


GISTE at 7:31 AM on July 28, 2019 | #13163 | reply | quote

more practice up to end of Cascade kingdom

- re cap kingdom boss. successfully jumped on the correct green hat.

- re getting up to the plateau to get the Dino. success on 1st try.

- re "Dino skip". took 2 tries.

- re cascade kingdom boss. I did pretty good, accept for not yet using small ant's advanced move of taking control of the Chain Chomp before it rushes me.

I should have timed this one. I did awesome compared to all previous runs.


GISTE at 9:31 PM on July 28, 2019 | #13165 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #6

I did a timed run and it took too long so I stopped timing and just focussed on practice. Here are my notes:

- re cap kingdom boss. I failed to jump on the correct hat.

- re getting up to the plateau to get the Dino. I got it on the first try. Later I messed up the run and went back to this place to try to get onto the plateau using a wall jump. I did this because I saw it's a way to get up there if you fail using the first method. The first method is a triple jump and arial cap jump and dive. If that fails, then instead of retrying to do that, I do a backflip then wall jump then dive.

- re "Dino skip". this is where I lost so much time that I stopped timing myself. I tried like 6 times before I was able to get upto the boss area. I figured out one thing I was doing wrong. I was jumping off of the Dino too early, resulting in not being close enough to the plateau where the boss is.

- re cascade kingdom boss. I did smallant's advanced move of hitting the Chain Chomp with cappy and then taking control of him before he rushes me.

This is getting more and more fun.


GISTE at 4:48 AM on July 29, 2019 | #13166 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #7 7:34

I got a new PM. 7:34.

- re cap kingdom boss. I failed to jump on the correct hat.

- re "Dino skip". I messed up jumping on the trampoline once. Got it the 2nd time or 3rd time around. Then I failed to jump off the Dino at the right time, but I got it on the 2nd time. I prolly lost 30 seconds.

My kid and I are competing for this now. On her first timed run, she got just above what I got on my first timed run of 9:17. And she's played the game (both the regular playing and speed running practice) waaaaay less than I have.


GISTE at 5:22 AM on July 29, 2019 | #13167 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #8 7:29 and #9 7:14

Another PR. 7:29. After the run I kept practicing my weak areas in cascade kingdom.

- re cap kingdom boss. I failed to jump on the correct hat. But I figured out that I've been jumping too early. I'm gonna wait a little bit longer next time.

- re "dino skip". I messed up by not getting the Dino's left foot to hit the trampoline (so I didn't get launched up). After the run I practiced this a bunch. I now have a much better idea of exactly where the Dino needs to be before I take a step with the Dino's left foot onto the trampoline.

- re jumping up to the plateau to get the moon. I've been messing this up a lot so I practiced it, analyzed it, and figured out what I need to do. The start of this is after beating the cascade boss and Mario starts out right in front of the odyssey. Here's what I have to do:

1. I move left (just to get some momentum)

2. immediately do a long jump

3. immediately do a regular jump (while still on the lower ground level)

4. continue to do the 2nd and 3rd jump of the triple jump (while on the higher ground level) (the 3rd jump clears the Chain Chomp that rushes me)

5. then do an arial cap jump

I did another timed run and got 7:14. During this run, here’s what I noted:

- re cap kingdom boss. I waited too long or something. I didn’t jump on the correct green hat to end the 3-hat sequence.

- re getting up to the plateau to get the Dino. I messed up on my first try. Then I did the backflip, wall jump, arial cap jump, dive, to get on the plateau. I lost very little time by recovering this way.

- Re “Dino skip”. I messed up getting the Dino’s left foot to hit the trampoline. I got it right on the 2nd try.

- Re jumping on the plateau to get the moon. I did something wrong and didn’t make it up to the plateau (at that point the Chain Chomp smashed the rocks, revealing the pipe - so I went through the pipe to get to the moon). I’m not sure what I did wrong. I think I got distracted by the Chain Chomp coming at me. I should not be distracted by it though cuz if I do things right then I’ll clear right over him.

- Re cascade kingdom boss. I got hit a couple of times. So I lost some time due to this. i still did it pretty fast compared to previous times.

I think I still have lots of room for improvement that won’t require much more skill than I have now.


GISTE at 12:10 PM on July 29, 2019 | #13169 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #10 7:30

this is the first time that I completed a timed run and didn't get a PR. I got 7:30. here's what I noted:

- re cap kingdom boss. still can't jump on the right hat.

- re "Dino skip". I missed the trampoline the first time but got it on the 2nd time around. I also messed up on the trampoline jump too and didn't make it to the plateau to the boss.

- re jumping on the plateau to get the moon. again I messed up, but not for being distracted by the Chain Chomp. I was too close to the plateau and hit it instead of getting on top. had to back flip, wall jump, dive to recover.

- re cascade kingdom boss. I got hit a couple of times. one instance was when I was trying to take control of the Chain Chomp before he rushed me. I wasn't close enough so my cappy didn't take control. the second instance of getting hit was when I took control of the Chain Chomp but i let the boss hit me, not sure why. I guess it was because I was near the perimeter of the boss area and didn't know what to do.

PS. my kid's PR is 7:40.


GISTE at 4:55 AM on July 30, 2019 | #13172 | reply | quote

more practice in the Cascade kingdom

I just wanted to practice this time. so I repeated the following cycle:

- starting in front of the odyssey, go left to get on top of the plateau where the moon is/would be.

- go back to the front of the odyssey. start the process of getting up to the cascade boss. (so, getting up to the plateau where the Dino is, then "Dino skip".)

Next time I'll do a timed run and then repeat this cycle a bunch of times for practice.


GISTE at 5:38 AM on July 30, 2019 | #13173 | reply | quote

What games do you recommend for speedrunning on Xbox 360?


N at 10:23 PM on July 30, 2019 | #13183 | reply | quote

#13183 I dunno exactly but I talked about this on my stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z93KKNbycgo

I'm not sure exactly where, I think it came up on and off, there's some stuff around 72min. One thing I suggested was watching Games Done Quick to see a variety of games and see what you like.


curi at 11:22 PM on July 30, 2019 | #13184 | reply | quote

#13184 Thanks. I will check it out. I'm interested trying out the game approach to changing habits.


Anonymous at 11:55 PM on July 30, 2019 | #13185 | reply | quote

speedrunning Cap/Cascade kingdoms - timed run #11 7:15

Last night I practiced the "Dino skip" repeatedly for like an hour. I noticed that sometimes I'm able to jump (off the Dino) onto the plateau easily. Other times it's pretty bad how not close I am.

Today I did a timed run and got a new PR of 7:14. Here's what I noted:

- "Dino skip". got it on the first try. I thought I wasn't going to make it. Mario touched the plateau's horizontal edge like 5 or 6 Mario-lengths under the top of the plateau and somehow that initiated the boss fight.

- re getting the moon on the plateau. I did something I've never done before. As I was getting the moon, I was also jumping, expecting to get the moon and get a bunch of horizontal distance towards the odyssey. but I missed the moon. at this point I wasn't in a position to return back to the plateau and instead I fell all the way down and had to get back up. I lost a lot of time.

PS. My kid's PR is 6:56, so she's beating me now.

PPS. I asked her to watch me and tell me what I'm doing wrong. one thing she said was that I'm slow at skipping the cut scenes.


GISTE at 3:40 AM on July 31, 2019 | #13187 | reply | quote

> - for the cap kingdom boss, I noticed that after the first hit on the boss, smallant jumps onto 1 of the 3 green hats, ending the 3 hat sequence practically before it starts. When I tried it, I must have jumped on the wrong hat because the hat sequence did not end. It took a while before I could stop the hat and jump on it.

You can finish the hat sequence quickly by throwing your cap at the hats. You don't have to jump on them. You can use the spin throw or the homing throw.


Anonymous at 7:57 PM on August 2, 2019 | #13202 | reply | quote

> Here’s what I’m doing exactly:

> 1. Rotate d-stick 2 rotations, then keep it in the direction I want to go. This starts a spin.

> 2. Then press B. This starts a jump.

> 3. Then immediately press and hold ZL. This starts a groundpound.

> 4. Then immediately and repeatedly press Y. This starts a fast roll.

> 5. Then shake the right controller. This makes repeated fast rolls.

For step 4, you should press Y once with the correct timing. Don't press it repeatedly. Practice to learn the right time to press Y.


Anonymous at 1:00 PM on August 21, 2019 | #13355 | reply | quote

#13022 Best backhanded compliment I've ever read. And the poor guy thanks her for it. Jesus what did I stumble into...


A at 3:09 PM on October 31, 2019 | #14064 | reply | quote

getting to know Sand kingdom route

I watched the smallant beginner speedrunning video for sand kingdom, all the way through the explanatory part.

Then I tried getting all of the moons according to the easiest route. I missed the moon from the bird and ignored it. I got the rest.

While doing that, there were times where I got off route by not making it to the top of a plateau. In those cases I tried to figure out a quick and easy way to get back on route (things not shown or explained in the smallant video).


GISTE at 9:09 AM on November 23, 2019 | #14542 | reply | quote

getting to know Sand kingdom route - session #2

I went through this route while watching the video guide as a reference.

For this session I focussed on maintaining continuity along the route (unlike my last session where I focussed on finding ways to recover when I deviated from the expected route).


GISTE at 9:42 AM on November 25, 2019 | #14563 | reply | quote

tried Sand kingdom route without video guide

I tried to do the Sand kingdom route without the video guide as a reference.

I got to what I thought was the last moon I needed and noticed that I was missing like 3 moons.

So I rewatched the video guide and noticed where I veered off the route.

Then I redid the whole route again without the video guide. This time I didn't go off route.

Note: I still haven't incorporated getting the moon from the bird. The video guide gives multiple options for how to get the moon from the bird and I have not yet established which of them is best for me.


GISTE at 6:06 AM on November 26, 2019 | #14590 | reply | quote

Sounds like progress. Why did you start again? I think that's worth writing down as a reminder to yourself in case you stop again.


curi at 12:23 PM on November 26, 2019 | #14593 | reply | quote

GDQ - The Safe Space For Speedrunners

https://archive.org/details/GDQTheSafeSpaceForSpeedrunners


Anonymous at 1:02 AM on November 27, 2019 | #14600 | reply | quote

tried Sand kingdom route without video guide - session #2

I tried again to do the Sand kingdom route without referencing the video guide. I did it right. I also established the best method (for me, for now) to get the moon that smallant treats as a variable in his guide. He says that if you fail to get the moon from the bird then you can get the moon from a musical challenge at the top of a tree. I did that and I found it a lot easier than getting the moon from the bird.

I did the route 3 more times.

In these 4 runs, I focussed on maintaining continuity.

After these 4 runs I thought maybe it's time to start timing my runs. But I don't think I'm ready for that. There are a few parts of the route where I do it wrong on the first try in 100% of my runs. For example, the part where I have to get on top of an ice tower. I think I should reach a level where I succeed on first try at least sometimes before I start timing my runs.


GISTE at 5:16 AM on November 27, 2019 | #14601 | reply | quote

> I think I should reach a level where I succeed on first try at least sometimes before I start timing my runs.

Why? Getting it on e.g. the 7th try instead of 9th is faster. You can measure your progress right now and see your improvement.


Anonymous at 11:40 AM on November 27, 2019 | #14604 | reply | quote

tried Sand kingdom route without video guide - session #3

I did 4 more runs without referencing the video guide.

- On the first 3 runs I wasn't able to get on the ice tower on first try. I figured out a way to recover and get on the ice tower. On the 4th run I got on the ice tower on first try.

- I'm getting better at using the Bullet Bill. Crashing less. Falling less when trying to exit the Bullet Bill to get on top of a plateau.

- I'm having trouble when rolling on hills. I end up turning direction a lot when I'm trying to go in a straight line. I've started to use long jumps (followed by rolling again) to correct my direction.


GISTE at 6:41 AM on November 30, 2019 | #14627 | reply | quote

More practice on sand kingdom route

I did 4 runs. Then I went back to practice one part of the route. It involves getting on top of an ice tower. In my last session I figured out a way to recover if I don’t make it on top of the ice tower the first time. But in this session I had trouble replicating the recovery method. I tried a bunch and finally figured out exactly where to jump from, and where to land on the ice tower. Then I did the same thing but from a better camera angle (so I didn’t have to reorient the camera angle).


GISTE at 5:51 AM on December 1, 2019 | #14632 | reply | quote

More practice on sand kingdom route

4 more runs.

Still having trouble using my recovery method to get on the ice tower, but getting better.

Still having trouble rolling on hills in a straight line, but getting better.


GISTE at 9:10 AM on December 2, 2019 | #14649 | reply | quote

Timed run of Sand kingdom #1 5:57

I did a timed run of the Sand kingdom. I started the clock at the end of the loading screen (at the moment I could skip the cut scene) and ended the clock when I entered the Odyssey.

I got 5:57.

Some notes:

- I forgot to switch to Japanese.

- I made a mistake that I normally do not make (at least not in the last few days of untimed runs). I think maybe I did this mistake because I was thinking about being timed instead of only focussing on doing the run.

- I watched the smallant guide again. I noticed a lot of things that he did differently that I did, some of which I already knew about, most of which I did not. I'm going to work on these things individually to try to match smallant's methods.


GISTE at 8:32 AM on December 5, 2019 | #14701 | reply | quote

#14701 Roughly what time do you need in Sand to get a 2 hour overall game completion time? 1.5 hrs? 1.25 hrs? 1hr?

Do you have a rough idea of your current goal or what times mean?


Anonymous at 11:16 AM on December 5, 2019 | #14705 | reply | quote

Goal for whole speedrun

#14705

Yes I wrote about that for the Cap and Cascade kingdoms. I calculated that my best time equates to a full run of about 1.5 hours.

Re Sand kingdom:

I looked at this speedrun as a reference. It gets 1 hour 1 min. It was world record in August 2018. https://youtu.be/0rnsK0Ao4mY

That run gets a time of 4:18 for the period between my starting and ending points for Sand kingdom. I got 5:57, which is 38% more. So a rough estimate for my whole run, using only my Sand run, is 1.4 hours.


GISTE at 4:24 PM on December 5, 2019 | #14712 | reply | quote

#14712 That sounds like your Sand Kingdom time is good enough to move on to learning more Kingdoms and getting a whole run finished.


Anonymous at 4:25 PM on December 5, 2019 | #14713 | reply | quote

First look at Lake route

I moved on to Lake kingdom.

This time I watched the guide while stopping at each moon to try out that section of the route.

This meant that I was watching the route with no explanation from smallant.

I got stuck at the point where I had to use a Cheep Cheep to jump out of the water, jump out of the Cheep Cheep and onto a wall, wall jump, and cap jump onto the platform. I tried it a bunch of times and failed before I decided to watch the rest of the guide where smallant gives explanations.

The explanations helped. It still took me a bunch more tries but I finally was able to do the series of moves to get me on the platform. Then I jumped back in the water to try it again. It took a few more tries before I was able to success again. Then I moved on.

There was only one thing left to do — beat the boss.

Initially I tried to copy what smallant did with only one viewing of the guide and without hearing his explanations first. I couldn’t replicate any of the moves.

So I listened to the explanations. I was able to do the first part on first try — triple jump onto the boss, hitting him once. I was also able to do the second part on first try too — stand inside the ring of coins, wait for his hat to start spinning, then back flip onto his head. But I failed to do the next series of moves. I also can’t explain how to do it. I need to rewatch and listen to the explanation again.


GISTE at 6:02 AM on December 7, 2019 | #14742 | reply | quote

Practicing Lake route

I practiced the Lake route 10 times without referencing the guide. Notes:

- The first part of the route was kinda easy.

- I had a lot of trouble replicating the part of the route where you jump out of the water onto a platform. In none of the 10 trials did I do this part in one attempt. I had to do it like 3 to 6 times before success.

- I also had a lot of trouble replicating the moves to beat the boss that I was able to do on first try last session. I resorted to beating the boss the regular way on all 10 trials.

- In none of these trials did I try to figure out a recovery method for when I fail to do something like make it on top of a platform. I think there are 2 spots like this that need a recovery method.

After these trials I practiced the part where you are in a Cheep Cheep, you jump out of the water, jump out of the Cheep Cheep and onto a wall, wall jump, then cap jump onto a platform. Notes:

- I figured out a recovery method for when you fail on first try of getting on the platform from the water. It was a method I learned when I did the speedrun for the Lake kingdom race. There is a circular island where you do a triple jump and cap jump and dive onto the platform.

- I practiced this part of the route, combined with the recovery method, a ton of times. Towards the end of this practice, I got on the platform with the regular method from the Cheep Cheep on first try about 3 out of 5 times. In the other 2 times I was able to use the recovery method on first try. So I think I’m good enough now on this part to do timed runs.


GISTE at 1:30 PM on December 7, 2019 | #14745 | reply | quote

I think practicing beating the boss the wrong way 10 times was a bad idea. Why not check the right way and practice that?


Anonymous at 1:33 PM on December 7, 2019 | #14746 | reply | quote

#14746

I was doing something that I had been doing a lot. If I found a move to be way too hard for me, I treated it as too advanced for me now and I found an easier way. For example, in the Sand kingdom, getting the moon from the bird was very hard for me, so I replaced that with getting a moon from a musical challenge.


GISTE at 4:53 AM on December 8, 2019 | #14751 | reply | quote

#14751 actually that's not exactly what happened. for each of the 10 boss fights, I tried the 2 things that I had mentioned trying from the guide:

> So I listened to the explanations. I was able to do the first part on first try — triple jump onto the boss, hitting him once. I was also able to do the second part on first try too — stand inside the ring of coins, wait for his hat to start spinning, then back flip onto his head. But I failed to do the next series of moves. I also can’t explain how to do it. I need to rewatch and listen to the explanation again.

My success rate using these 2 moves on first try in the 10 boss fights was 0%.

I tried the triple jump on the boss's head many times per fight. I think only the first one made sense, which happens right at the start of the fight. I think all the other tries were impractical because the boss was throwing his hat at me, which I think doesn't happen right at the start of the fight.

Re the backflip onto boss's head, that I tried using throughout the fight anytime a ring of coins popped out of the boss.

I used the normal methods of hitting the boss when these other methods didn't work and when the boss through his hat at me in such a way where it was easy for me to throw cappy at the hat. that results in being in position to do the normal method of hitting the boss (walk onto the boss's hat, which does a spin jump, and slowly come down onto the boss's head).

-----

Tangent:

I looked at a world record video to make my goal for the Lake route. I noticed that he used the backflip repeatedly to hit the boss. That seems easier than what the smallant guide recommends (which involves groundpounding onto the boss, then doing a ground-pound jump, then letting the boss hit you on his way up as you are still in the air).


GISTE at 4:34 AM on December 9, 2019 | #14761 | reply | quote

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